The Publishing Performance Show

Matty Dalrymple - The Podcast Strategy That Builds Authors' Careers (Not Just Book Sales)

• Teddy Smith • Episode 109

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Matty Dalrymple is a bestselling author with two thriller series: the Ann Kinnear Suspense novels and the Lizzy Ballard thrillers. She's also the host of The Indy Author Podcast, which has been running since 2016 with nearly 270 episodes. As a writing consultant and speaker, Matty helps authors navigate both the craft and business sides of publishing. Her expertise in podcasting for authors stems from years of hosting her own show and appearing as a guest on numerous other podcasts, making her a valuable resource for authors looking to leverage audio content for platform building. 


In this episode: 

• Why authors should be podcast listeners before becoming podcast guests 

• The importance of having expertise beyond just your own book 

• How to research and identify the right podcasts for your genre 

• Creating personal connections with podcast hosts for better opportunities 

• Developing multiple conversation angles beyond "I wrote a book" 

• Using podcasts for networking and building long-term relationships 

• The difference between book tour podcasts and expertise-focused shows 

• Why social media matchmaking services can help beginners practice 

• Creating effective one-pagers and pitch materials for hosts 

• How podcast appearances can lead to speaking gigs and consulting opportunities 


Resources mentioned: 

• PodMatch for podcast guest/host connections 

• The Indy Author Podcast (Almost 300 now!) 

• BookFunnel for cross-promotion strategies 

• Author Nation conference for networking 


Book Recommendations: 

• Podcasting for Authors by Matty Dalrymple 

• The Podcast Guest Playbook by Matty Dalrymple & Mark Leslie Lefebvre


Connect with Matty Dalrymple: 

• Website: theindyauthor.com 

• Fiction website: mattydalrymple.com 

• The Indy Author Podcast 

• Fiction series: Rock, Paper, Scissors (Lizzy Ballard thrillers) 

• The Falcon and the Owl (Ann Kinnear suspense)


Connect with Teddy Smith:



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Discover More with Our Curated Starter Packs: https://teddyagsmith.com/starter-packs/



[00:00:00] Teddy Smith: Welcome to the Publishing Performance Show, the podcast that helps self-publish authors turn their passion into a profit. Now, I'm your host Teddy Smith, and if you're serious about building a sustainable business, then you're in the right place. Every week I sit down with successful authors, industry experts, and publishing professionals who share their exact strategies they use right now to how they grown their business, grow their readership, increase their book sales, and essentially to make a bit more money.

[00:00:29] Now, whether you're just starting out or you're looking to scale your existing publishing business, you'll walk away from every episode with actual insights you can implement immediately. Now, if you are new here, it would really, really help me out. If you could subscribe either on Apple or Spotify or YouTube or wherever you are, just simply hit the subscribe button.

[00:00:45] It really helps to show to get more reach, which means we can get better guests for you and we can help you out in in more ways. Alright, let's dive into this episode. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Publishing Performance Show. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Matty Dalrymple, who is a bestselling author and the host of the Indie Author podcast.

[00:01:02] So thank you very much for joining us, Matt. 

[00:01:04] Matty Dalrymple: Oh, it's fun to be here. I'm glad we're having a follow up to our conversation at Author Nation. 

[00:01:09] Teddy Smith: Yeah, it was. Did you enjoy Author Nation? 

[00:01:11] Matty Dalrymple: That was fantastic. Yeah, I can't believe that that team of people pulled off what was basically like the first time for that conference.

[00:01:18] I know, you know, many of the things carried forward from 20 books, but they made some significant changes and I thought they did a fabulous job and it's like a networking dream come true. So yeah, I had a wonderful time. 

[00:01:29] Teddy Smith: Yeah, it was good. I mean, for anyone who doesn't, if you've been listening to my shows, you know what Author Nation is, but for people who haven't, it's a really big conference in Las Vegas, and it's basically where everyone from the indie author world gets together to talk about books and how to sell more books and how to be better at writing and all those sort of things.

[00:01:46] Basically, the entire self-publishing industry is there to talk about self-publishing. It's great, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And so when we were there, you were actually giving a talk all about podcasting for authors, and I think that's what we want to talk about today because I get a lot of questions about how can I come on the show?

[00:02:01] Like what's my criteria, what do I need to prepare, how can I appear on more shows? Where do I find shows? All these sort of questions. So why don't you give us a bit of a background to how we've ended up speaking today. Like what do you do and how do you help authors? 

[00:02:14] Matty Dalrymple: Yeah, well I am a, fiction author.

[00:02:17] I have two series the Anne Ner, suspense Dabbles and the Lizzie Ballard thrillers. And, I also, write speak podcast and consult on the writing craft and the publishing voyage as the indie author. That's indie with A-Y-I-N-D-Y. And so, I have, just coming up on 270 episodes of the Indie Author Podcast.

[00:02:36] Wow. Which has been, out there since 2016. It started out, and I think this is actually useful for people to hear, like what the, what the impetus was of me starting a podcast. which was basically that I belong to a local writers group. I live outside Philadelphia. I, along to the Brandywine Valley Writers Group.

[00:02:52] There were a couple of people in that group who had, you know, specific areas of expertise that I was interested in learning more about. So, so one of them, understood about media outreach, because he himself was a journalist. One of them had some great tips about, author readings, how to excel at author readings.

[00:03:08] And I really wanted a chance to talk with them about their areas of expertise. And so, kind of as a courtesy, I recorded our conversations and I put them out as, the first podcast episodes, and then in 20. so at that point it was really like I, I selfishly wanted to learn for my own purposes and then in order to pay it back to the community, I was sharing it as a podcast in order to do that.

[00:03:30] And then as time went on, it became more of a networking outlook for me, continuing to be, the idea of paying it forward to people. and, and eventually to a certain extent, a moneymaking opportunity. But, the. I think it's always helpful for guests to understand what drives a podcaster because it can help you make, your pitches more effectively.

[00:03:50] And so, yeah, I, I interview anyone in writing and publishing that, that it's able to talk to something that's important to me at the time. I always joke with my listeners that they can tell what. What I'm struggling with at any moment based on the topics of the conversations I have on the Author podcast.

[00:04:06] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. I, I keep saying to my wife the, the podcast is my favorite of all my projects. If I could just do the podcast, that would be, I would do that full time for sure. Interesting. Do you enjoy, so what was 

[00:04:18] Matty Dalrymple: your impetus for starting it out? 

[00:04:20] Teddy Smith: Oh, yeah. So I mean, it was quite similar to yours around the networking.

[00:04:24] So I, although I do. I, I do have books and I'm self-published. My background is more of coming, coming from the business side of the books, so I'm not as creative as people like you and most of the people that go to Author Nation. I'm a creative person, but I'm not like sitting there going, you know, typing out books and like writing novels and things like that.

[00:04:42] I wrote them more as a a, as a part of my wider business. So I've got an e-commerce business, which is in the medi meditation space. And so my first books were all about different types of meditation, and I use them more as products for my business rather than books. So I always say to people, I'm not really an author, I'm more of a, a publisher.

[00:05:02] I feel, I feel like a bit of a, a fraud saying that I'm a a, a pure writer, you know? but I still love talking about the craft with people. And that's, yeah. So my, the reason I started this podcast was, you know, a way of becoming more famous, for want of a better word in this industry. You know, more to network, like you mentioned, to, to speak to amazing people, to learn more about writing and just to generally, 

[00:05:26] Help people who listen to learn more about self-publishing. And when people ask me what my podcast is about, I always say, name of the podcast is to help people make more money selling books. So, that's kind of what I was trying to do, you know, get people to understand that they are not just creating, they're not just writing.

[00:05:43] They're creating more of an author business and they need to sort of sell themselves and to sell their books and to understand those strategies. Yeah. 

[00:05:50] Matty Dalrymple: That's great. Well, that's great. it's a great mission statement. 

[00:05:53] Teddy Smith: Yeah. So one of the thi, I mean, when we talk, when we spoke at Author Nation, the Speak the talk you had just given was about how to appear on your first podcast.

[00:06:02] It was about, where to find the guests, sorry, where to find the shows, like how to prepare to, appear on them. So why don't you give us a bit of a overview of what that talk was about. 

[00:06:13] Matty Dalrymple: Yeah. Well, one of the things I like to start out with is saying that, there are many reasons to pursue podcast appearances.

[00:06:19] I think that the fact, there are two things that I think make podcasts really appealing. One is, audio content is just intrinsically engaging. That is in a way that is harder to achieve with the written word. It pains me to say that as a writer, but that idea of literally being in someone's ear, has the opportunity to create a connection that's just harder to achieve if you were trying to like write a blog post or write an article or even like social media posts and things like that.

[00:06:44] I actually am, I'm pretty. I'm pretty down on social media at the moment, so I think that podcasts are gonna become even more, an outlet that people should be pursuing because I think that social media is losing its effectiveness as a community building, an inter reader outreach, platform.

[00:06:59] It's, it's something people can do while they're doing other things, which is becoming increasingly important. Yeah. Like I do all my podcasts listening while I'm walking my dogs. So, you know, that ability, that's me the other day 

[00:07:09] Teddy Smith: on a coaching call, they said it's weirds meeting you in person because you, you are, you are usually my partner and my dog walks.

[00:07:15] Matty Dalrymple: Yeah, yeah, exactly. and with everybody's busy lives, then that's just a, a very appealing, way of going about it. But what I like to say to people is that. Before you pitch yourself to podcasts, you should really be a podcast listener because I strongly believe that people are most successful on the platforms that they enjoy.

[00:07:33] So if you love TikTok, then TikTok is the perfect way to try to connect with readers. If you hate TikTok, don't bother. Like I, when TikTok first came out, I looked at it for literally like 45 seconds and I found it. Just so not me, but I don't think I ever went and looked at it again. And people would say, oh, you know, you're an author.

[00:07:53] You have to, you have to be on TikTok or Book talk. And I was like, I'd just be awful at it because if I hate watching it, I'm gonna be awful at creating content for it. And I think the same is absolutely true of podcasts to, to a lesser extent, but I think it's still true that you will be able to do your best performance if you are an enthusiastic podcast listener.

[00:08:13] Because you kind of, you understand the gestalt, you understand what the expectations are of listeners. And so I think the first requirement is, to be in general someone who likes to consume audio content. And then I think that the second, the second requirement is to have some familiarity with a podcast you're pitching.

[00:08:31] And I think that's not too onerous an assignment because if you are, if you've written a book on meditation, let's say, and, and now you wanna find some, uh. Places where you can talk about meditation on podcasts, all you have to do is go to your podcast player and type in meditation. You're gonna find a whole bunch of podcasts that you not only would love to be on, but probably would also love to listen to.

[00:08:53] And so the research of this can be quite fun. You know, you just find podcasts that appeal to you as you're wearing your hat of the topic, or the genre or whatever it is that you wanna represent, and you find the ones that take guests and, and that's your initial pool of podcasts that you could pitch.

[00:09:09] Teddy Smith: Definitely now I think the people that I get, a lot of people contact me and I've only really just started actually having more strict criteria about the people who came on. We were just chatting about this before, but you know, you've got to 270 episodes, I think you said, and I'm, so, I'm, I'm on about 70 at the moment, so I've, it is, has done really well.

[00:09:27] But the first, at first I was like quite desperate to get people on, so I had all these people come and I didn't really define that. Niche properly. Whereas now I have quite set criteria. So with your criteria, what are the sort of things that you look for when people come onto the show? 

[00:09:45] Matty Dalrymple: Well, I have refined my criteria to be, it has to be people who have an expertise in a topic related to writing and publishing, and have demonstrated that expertise through, other podcast appearances.

[00:09:57] Maybe they've written a book about it, maybe they've done talks about it. Maybe I've, I've just had a conversation with them about it and I, I recognize that they're an expert and that that expertise has to be beyond their own book and, so. The, the reasons for some of those criteria are that, beyond their own book is important because I don't want pitches for people who say, you know, I, my first book just came out and I'd love to come on the podcast and talk with you about it.

[00:10:23] Well, there are podcasts that w would love that. It's not that that's not a good podcast topic, it's that it's not a book good podcast topic for the Indie Author podcast because it's not that kind of podcast. Like that person is looking for a book tour podcast that caters to. Readers who are interested in that particular genre.

[00:10:41] but if they can't generalize their experience in a way that is gonna be useful to my writer centric audience, it's not going to be useful. the fact that, they've done that in a book or a, an article or a presentation or whatever that might be, is demonstration that they thought through the topic sufficiently, that they have like organized us to share about it.

[00:11:02] And, um, I'd say that the other criteria is that. well, there I, there are two other criteria. One is that if they're pitching me because they have a product that they want to share, they have to have information. That is gonna be valuable to my listeners regardless of whether they purchased the product or not.

[00:11:19] Yeah. So a perfect example of this is Damon Courtney. I've interviewed Damon Courtney of Book Funnel on the Indie Author podcast. And we had a long conversation where probably the word book funnel didn't come up. Probably came up a couple of times because the agreement was we were gonna be talking about.

[00:11:35] cross promotion and how to use cross-promotion in order to build a network of fellow authors and readers. Yeah. And then at the end, he had an opportunity to talk about how Book Funnel can help readers do that. And so it can't be a sales pitch, it has to be, It has to be something that is value valuable to the readers, even if they don't use the product.

[00:11:53] and then I'd say that the last criteria that kind of surprises people sometimes is it really helps if I have some personal connection with a person. And the personal connection can be me seeing them do a presentation at Author Nation or, you know, I've run into them at a conference or you know, I know them because they're buddies or whatever, and.

[00:12:14] I do that because, the, that's the background of my recommendation to people to say that unless you're like already a celebrity and people are already gonna recognize your name, I don't recog recommend that people start out trying to find podcast placements through services like, you know, matchmaker services or PR firms.

[00:12:33] So on, because I can look back. If I were gonna rate all 270 episodes of the Indie Author Podcast, the ones that I and my listeners like best are the ones where I already have an established relationship with a guest. Like I've had Michael Laron on. The podcast a bunch of times. Michael and I are friends.

[00:12:52] We've, we've conducted workshops together. We've co-authored a book. We're co-authoring a new book. Like I know Michael really well In those conversations. They're always super fun and the listeners love them. And the ones that are the least successful are ones that were pitched to me by, by a publicist.

[00:13:06] Yeah. And I have nothing in common with a person. they don't know me from Adam. You know, there, there's, there have been, Interviews where I've gotten on and it was clear that their publicist just said, click this button at 12:00 AM or you know, 12:00 PM and you're gonna be talking with someone on a podcast.

[00:13:23] And it's just very, very awkward. And so I have almost. Like every once in a while, I just think I'm not, I'm just not gonna take pitches from PR firms anymore. And then I'll have one that's great and I'm thinking, oh, okay, well maybe I shouldn't close that door entirely. But I do think that creating that personal connection, if you're a potential guest and you wanna get on a podcast, then 

[00:13:46] Then getting in touch with someone personally so they can get some sense of what you're like as a person, I think is better than going through a third party. 

[00:13:53] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. I think that that is absolutely true. I mean, the best interviews I've had have been with people yet, like you mentioned, I met in person, but that is quite difficult to do.

[00:14:01] Some people, you know, you some people can't get. Las Vegas, you know, I'm in the uk, it was quite expensive trip for me. but. So there are a couple of services that I've, that I've used, and my show is on it, and there's one called Pod Match. It's a, so if you are a guest and you're looking to appear, it's a bit like Tinder, but for, for podcasting.

[00:14:18] So if you're a guest, like as a host, I can see people's profile and I can like either match with, I can swipe left or swipe right, you know, I can either match or, or, or discard whether I think that they're relevant or not. And it was a really good way to get my first guess. And I think if you are just looking to appear on some podcasts, maybe to, you know, sharpen your knife a bit and to get better at appearing on podcasts, then these tools are quite good because they do allow you to get yourself in front of a lot of people and at least you can start seeing, you know, what's working with your profile and what's sort of conversations people wanna hear about and that sort of thing.

[00:14:52] Matty Dalrymple: That's a great point. Like I really like that idea of using it as sort of market research. And early on when I would talk to people about podcast guesting, there were, there were several services, pod match May well have been one of them that offered free services and you could sign up and you would get like a limited bio or you only, you could only make so many connections.

[00:15:11] I can't remember how they limited the free plan and then. the last time I checked they were, it felt like a lot of the free plans had dropped out and a lot of the paid plans were quite expensive. Yes. So, I'd just be curious to hear from you about like, do you recommend people do that and stick with it or do it for a couple of months if they're looking for podcast placements?

[00:15:32] I 

[00:15:32] Teddy Smith: think, I think it depends what your goal is. So, and I think this is quite important because for some people the goal is just to be on lots of podcasts and you know, if that is your goal, then a tool like podcast, Todd Pod match is great because you can just pitch yourself to loads and loads of podcasts really quickly.

[00:15:46] It's not the best place to find very targeted podcasts that are the, the right ones for you. You know, not, firstly, not every podcast is on there. so it doesn't help me if I want to appear on a podcast that's not on there. But if my aim is just to get on loads of podcasts, then it's, it is a really good tool.

[00:16:02] But I think it's like $35 a month or something. Yeah. As a host, actually I earn money when people come. I, I, when, when I found an interview through there, then I earn a small amount of money, like $5 if I interview someone as like commission. but I that, but still as a host, I'm still really picky about who I take from pod match.

[00:16:20] 'cause my first few guests I found from there, they were good. And, but some have been maybe not my ideal list, like not my ideal interviewee now. Yeah. but yeah, for people who want to disappear on lots, it is a great way to. Just learn more about all different podcasts out there and, and just try appearing on some, I guess, yeah.

[00:16:38] I guess one thing to say is you probably don't want to go on your ideal podcast as your first ever one. Yeah. Because you are not that great at being interviewed yet. You don't, you haven't refined your message and you know, if you really. You know, if, if your first of a podcast was like going on Tim Ferriss or something like that, that would be a horrible experience because you'd feel like you just like wasted that amazing chance that you could have got in front of a hundred pe, like a hundred thousand people or something.

[00:17:00] So yeah, 

[00:17:01] Matty Dalrymple: that's great advice. Start with your C list and work your way up. Yeah. 

[00:17:05] Teddy Smith: that is really true. Now I wanna focus more on like what authors can do. Now I know a lot of the people I speak to is nonfiction and I think for nonfiction authors. It's quite straightforward, so work out what exactly where you want to appear.

[00:17:19] Because for example, with my meditation books, if I wanted to promote those through podcasts, I could search for spirituality podcasts or meditation podcasts. or, you know, if you're a writer you could try and appear on business podcasts. A lot of people I hear are there's, you know, there's a lot of business podcasts out there, but for nonfiction first, sorry for fiction authors, how do you usually advise people, where to start with the source of podcasts you're appearing on?

[00:17:43] Matty Dalrymple: Well, I think it depends on what your goal is. So one obvious goal is to find new readers for your books. And I think there the starting point would be you probably are looking more for book tour podcasts. Book tour podcasts that are specific to your genre. And so I know, you know, I'm in the mystery, thriller, suspense area.

[00:18:01] If I go onto a podcast platform and search for, you know, mystery podcasts, I'm gonna find a whole ton of them. Even sometimes, interestingly enough, you can, you sort of cast the net a little wider than you might think because I remember speaking to, someone who had a True Crime podcast and he had gotten in touch with me and said, I normally interview people about true crimes, but sometimes I like to interview authors who are writing fictional works that are, somehow tied in with true crime or based on a true crime or something like that.

[00:18:30] And I was like. That sounds great. Unfortunately, that's not me, but I had a friend who that was totally her, her shtick, and so I put the two of them in touch. but I think if you're, if you're looking for readers, then, you know, look for those podcasts that are catering to readers of your genre. and all the, all the previous, advice about listening to them and understanding them, understanding biggest all applies.

[00:18:53] I would also recommend that you not just. Position it as I just wrote a book and I wanna come talk about it. that violates a couple of the rules of pitching, one of which is it doesn't make it clear what's in it for the host or the audience. And so in any communication, I mean, this goes way beyond just pitching for podcasts.

[00:19:12] In any communication where you're, asking for someone to help you promote yourself, you have to. Have what's in it for them. Yeah. And so, you might say, I've been listening to, to your podcast, I under, you know, I noticed that oftentimes you address topics that are, That are, related to a technical innovation or the, Cornwall or, stories that take place in the desert, whatever that is.

[00:19:35] And you could say, you know, I have something to offer, obviously your audience, Joyce's kind of, content. And I have something to offer along those lines. I have a book that said in Cornwall, or, you know, I did research in the Sahara for the, for the fictional work that I wrote on, on such and such. And so, find those ways to connect what you had to offer.

[00:19:52] With a host in their audience, and then have a couple of flavors of that so that you're not just saying, I wanna come talk about my book. So, for example, one of my books, one of my nurse suspense fillers, the Falcon in the Owl, has a very heavy backstory, in aviation. I myself, took. Flying lessons for many years and I briefly owned an airplane, got my license for reasons.

[00:20:15] That could be a whole other podcast conversation, but they could be a whole other podcast conversation like that. That's actually my point that, I could pitch a podcast about, women in aviation or something like that and I could say, Hey, look, I. I, had this experience. I, you know, I have stories to tell about it that, you know, I think your audience would like to hear.

[00:20:35] And oh, by the way, I have a, a novel that I wrote based on those experiences that I had. I have a flight instruction instructor, my novel, who is really just verbatim, my flight instructor. Like the things that the character says are exactly, but the, you know, my flight instructor would've said to me. And so that angle of aviation or women in aviation, 

[00:20:55] Vintage planes, like there are all sorts of angles I could take on that book beyond. I wrote a book and I wanna come talk about it. So really think through where your book is set, what era it's in. Are there characters who have specific abilities? I have, One of my series has a woman who has some, psychic ability.

[00:21:15] So, you know, I could play up, you know, do I have that? Do I not have that? Where did I get that idea? So think beyond. Just, I wanna talk about my book and think about all those facets of your book that might offer an interesting. An interesting hook into a particular podcast that you want to pitch. 

[00:21:33] Teddy Smith: Yeah. My sister's a pilot in the rf, so she can go on your aviation podcast if you want.

[00:21:37] Yeah, 

[00:21:38] Matty Dalrymple: yeah, yeah. That would be cool. I mean, you could even, you could find out something like that. I could make a connection with your sister and then we could pitch podcast together and say, look, we have. Like a wannabe pilot who wrote about it. We have an actual pilot who's doing it. We would love to come on your podcast and talk about that.

[00:21:55] So yeah, lots of fun things that that fiction authors can do, to make themselves appealing to podcasts. 

[00:22:01] Teddy Smith: The one thing that I've found really helpful that sets people apart, and it shows a level of professionalism that I think is much better than. Emailing someone and saying, Hey, can I appear on your podcast?

[00:22:10] Is a lot of people have a one pager. Now, this doesn't have to necessarily be, like a CV or anything like that, and it, it doesn't even need to be necessarily a, a separate document, but it's basically a list of, things that you could talk about and sometimes they even give you. Questions and talking points for the show and ideas for what the show could be about.

[00:22:30] And that goes back to your exact points. You know, what are you giving me as an author? Because if I read a one pager and it says things like, I've got a new book and I can talk about that, then I don't really want to hear about that. Unless, unless it really is someone that is. You know, quite famous and their, their, their new book is, you know, going to be a, a, a good book.

[00:22:51] Um, if it, you know, I, I, I spoke to, you know, Kevin J. Anderson and people like that. You know, I don't mind hearing about his new book because obviously his new book is going to be quite a big book. But if I don't want to hear about someone who's their first book and just talk about that, I'd want to hear about what my audience could learn.

[00:23:07] So. For example, on my podcast, if you wanted to come on mine, maybe you've tried a particular marketing tactic that was really successful and it helped you get to the top of the Amazon rankings. That'd be a lovely topic to talk about. I'd really, that that'd be perfect for my show. So when you are creating those one pages, are there any tips you've got for people to help make them stand out a it?

[00:23:28] Matty Dalrymple: Well, I actually myself don't, Normally when I get a one page, it's from PR firm. Oh, okay. So from my own experience, like that's useful, but what I actually find more useful, and I, I think this is good, it's good advice for hosts and guests, for hosts to be very explicit about how you wanna get pitches and for guests to heed that advice.

[00:23:49] My ideal pitches are the ones that come to me in an email, and the email is quite brief, but it provides links to all the things that I might wanna look at. And a one pager online could be one of those things. And so, I don't necessarily need to see every platform that somebody has a, you know, social media presence on, but it's great for me to be able to click over somewhere, have those links nicely organized, and just be able to click through and see what's going on.

[00:24:15] a link to their book, ideally not on a specific retail platform, but on their own website. I like to, I like to have it all in an email because then it's just right there in my electronic world, and then have links everywhere. And again, that idea that, you pave the way by making it as easy for the host as possible, you know, by, by providing them with questions, like you said, that's a great tip.

[00:24:36] by putting all the information they might need in one place is a great tip. but I do think that the power of a one sheet, like you're describing is that you can use it for. purpose is beyond podcast, appearances. Like if you want to get, some media coverage, that kind of one sheet could also be very useful for that.

[00:24:52] So it would be a great resource to have and, applicable in many different areas. 

[00:24:56] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. Especially if you're trying to get speaking at conferences and things like that, you know, it's a great way to try and get yourself in front of those audiences. And the people that you speak to, the authors generally, do they have, any particular goals that you've seen or any aims they want to get out of being on a podcast apart from just getting on a podcast?

[00:25:13] Matty Dalrymple: Well actually that, that makes me think of the other goal I wanted to talk about. I was talking earlier about if, if your goal is to reach more readers, and that's a very, very common goal, especially for fiction authors. for nonfiction authors, there can be other goals like a. Demonstrating expertise in order to get speaking gigs, for example.

[00:25:30] Or you have a consulting service and you wanna be able to post some videos of you speaking with people on the topic, on your website to encourage clients to engage you for your consulting services. You know, on the, on the nonfiction side, there are all sorts of, those examples of your trying to reach the end.

[00:25:45] I don't know the, The, revenue producer, whatever, however you wanna frame that. But I think another really underappreciated benefit of, podcast appearances, and this applies regardless of the kind of book you write, is the connections you can create with other, with the podcast host and I really think that that's, you know, if, if people, follow our advice and they go out and get, get podcasts, then if you remember nothing else of what I said about this, it's that don't assume that your work is done when the record light goes out.

[00:26:12] Because I think back through both the people that I have hosted on my podcast and where I've been a guest on other podcasts, and I think about the things that came out of those relationships, as a result of that. So. Mark LaFave. Mark LaFave and I, co-authored a book about, the business side of short fiction based on, well, me listening to Mark's podcast and being engaged with him as a podcast listener, and making that connection.

[00:26:37] And then, mark has been, on the podcast many times. I already mentioned Michael around and I, co-authoring books. And we've been, you know, Michael has been a guest on my. on my podcast many times. And so carry that idea forward of ideally you go into this knowing what you want out of it, you wanna reach more readers, whatever that might be.

[00:26:55] But also keep in mind what you can do for the other person because, Because thinking of it just very narrowly as that one 30 minutes or 45 minutes or that one interaction, sure you're gonna get benefits out of that, but you're not gonna get the same benefits as if you think of it as an opportunity to build a long-term relationship, with someone else.

[00:27:15] I mean, you and I, we met at Author Nation and then we've had some, some meetings about some other topics. I think there's some opportunities there, you know, for us to lead our. Fans and followers to the other person's offerings. So I think, you know, that's another great, illustration of the benefits that can accrue to both sides if you approach it in that way.

[00:27:35] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. It, I think one of the things that always stands out is talk is if you tell the podcast host that you are, you know, you're very happy to share it across your different social medias and especially through your mailing list. Yeah. Um, if, if you've got an asset that. Is really good. Like if you've got a, a main list of five, 10,000 people, then a lot of podcast hosts are gonna have you on because that is quite a big audience that, that you're gonna be able to send it to.

[00:27:59] Um, I mean, I did a interview with Dave Cheen from Kindlepreneur, and when he posted that out to his newsletter, it was like, uh, it just skewed the rest of my results for the rest of the year because I've got like, you know, 2000 views on the first day of it going live or something like that. Yeah. When he posts out to his newsletter.

[00:28:16] So even if your newsletter is not quite as impressive as his. If you've got something that can build, bring those views in, then that's really gonna help. I think. 

[00:28:23] Matty Dalrymple: Yeah, I think that, you know, getting the Dave Chasins of the world is great. Um, but also don't feel discouraged about pursuing podcast appearances if you have a very small, following because.

[00:28:35] A lot of times if I'm assessing a guest, I'm assessing them more on their level of enthusiasm and their engagement. Like I would rather interview someone who has a hundred followers on Facebook and they're very engaged with them and their followers are obviously very committed and there's like a really good connection between the people that they have among their followers and the people I'm trying to reach all those kinds of things than to, to speak with someone who has tens of thousands of followers, but they're obviously not that interested.

[00:29:04] PR firms. 

[00:29:05] Teddy Smith: Yeah. 

[00:29:06] Matty Dalrymple: or, you know, they're, they're just, maybe they're posting but they're not engaging. Maybe they're not on the platform at all, even though they're, you know, like the number looks like they have a lot of followers. So, yeah, just committing to be really enthusiastic about supporting, the podcast and the host, that is hosting you.

[00:29:22] Regardless of, of how big a platform you have, you're gonna get a good reputation and you're gonna, you're gonna land more, appearances as a result. 

[00:29:29] Teddy Smith: Definitely. Now you talking about, mark LaFave, you've written a book, which is coming out soon, all about how to be a good podcast guest. Now, why don't you give us a bit of a tell, give us a bit of an overview of exactly what that book's about.

[00:29:42] Matty Dalrymple: Yeah, well, the first book I wrote about podcasting is Podcasting for Authors. So, that's a, a book that a, a solo book that I wrote. the subtitle is Creed and Connections, community and Income. So we've talked a lot about the connections and community part, and there is a part on that about being, a good podcast guest.

[00:29:58] But I found that, especially when I went to events like Author Nation and I would talk about podcasting. Not surprisingly, a lot of the attendees. Were like, I don't really wanna host a podcast, but you know, I recognize the value of podcasting. And so I found, I was talking more and more about that and I started pulling together all the tips.

[00:30:15] You know, we've talked about some of them here, but all those tips that I would share with people who were looking to appear on a podcast. And actually it was at Author Nation, it was, mark and I got together for lunch and at Paris, which is next door. 

[00:30:29] Teddy Smith: Yeah. To 

[00:30:29] Matty Dalrymple: where, to where Author Nation is held. And we were walking back and I was telling, telling Mark that I was working on this book, and he said, oh, are you, are you interested in co-author?

[00:30:37] And I was like, yes, yes. In fact, that would be great. because Mark is, mark was a great person to partner with because Mark has not only been, acted as host on many, many podcasts and as a guest on many, many podcasts. And he also has, a. quite a different approach than I do. and so it was great because by engaging him in the creation of the book, which is is called the Podcast Guest Playbook, readers are gonna get, get both our perspectives and I think we're covering a wider range of approaches and topics than we would if I, if that had ended up being a solo book.

[00:31:10] So. Yeah, that's gonna be coming out a little later this year, probably in, spring, early summer of 2025. And, yeah, it would be great for people who want more of what we've been talking about here to check out the podcast guest playbook. 

[00:31:23] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. I might have to send it to all the, people that come on their show so I can, make sure that're doing it properly when they come on.

[00:31:29] Matty Dalrymple: Well, it is funny that I've mentioned this to a couple of podcast hosts and they're very, very excited about it because I think that exact thing, they're, they do wanna like mail it out or. Post it, you know, post a point or to it on the website or something like that and say, yeah, can you read this before you pitch me?

[00:31:44] Because, you know, every podcast host gets, gets the, the cringes and and we all want the experience to be as good as possible for our guests. And so having people understand what those best practices are, I think is gonna be really helpful. 

[00:31:58] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, when I, when I had people, when I have people speak to me about setting up their own podcasts, like you mentioned before, I always say to them, before you do that, try and be a guest on some other podcasts because it's a lot of work setting up your podcasts.

[00:32:12] I think it's more than just like speaking to people and, you know, getting the guests on it is like, there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind that people don't see. And being a guest is much easier because you've just got to prepare. What you're gonna talk about and show up. so I would really say try and be a guest on as many podcasts as you can before setting up your own one, because.

[00:32:29] You know, it is, you might as well just understand exactly what's going on in the ecosystem before you have to like start creating your own one for yourself. It's, it's a lot of work. Yeah. 

[00:32:39] Matty Dalrymple: Yeah. One of the things that Mark and I are including in the podcast Guest Playbook is there's a chapter saying that the host's perspective and I give a list of the tasks that I have to perform.

[00:32:49] I or my, production assistant need to perform in order to get an episode of the Indie Author podcast out. I'm like, it's not that. You have to understand what's going on at each of these. You just need to understand this. This is, like, this list is like 50 items long and and I think that your point about, don't dip your toe in as a host is a really good one.

[00:33:08] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. So when's that, when's your book coming out? When, when are we looking at the release date for that? 

[00:33:13] Matty Dalrymple: Well, it will definitely be out by June. I, we have a deadline to be driven by another, another podcast appearance that I've already signed up for. hopefully it'll be out a little sooner than that.

[00:33:22] But, yeah, in that general timeframe. 

[00:33:24] Teddy Smith: Great. Well, if people, thanks so much for coming on mass. I think this has been a really interesting conversation, really preparing people how they can become great guests for podcasts and exactly what they need to do to get on more podcasts. If, if people wanna get in contact with you about podcasting or about anything else, what's, where's the best place to do that?

[00:33:39] Matty Dalrymple: They can go to the indie author.com and that's Indy with A-Y-I-N-D-Y, the indie author.com. And if they're interested in learning about my fiction work, they can go to maddy dingle.com and that's Maddy with A-Y-M-A-T-T-Y. 

[00:33:52] Teddy Smith: And with your fiction books, where's the best place to start? 

[00:33:55] Matty Dalrymple: well, I would start, I would advise 'em to start with the first Lizzie Ballard thriller, which is called Rock Paper Scissors.

[00:34:00] the, sixth kind of wrap up book is gonna be coming out, later this year. And so I'm, I'm deep into the Lizzie world and I'm super excited about that. my other series, the Anne Kinner, suspense novels are more standalone. I, if, if they're interested in that book that I mentioned about aviation, that's called the Falcon and the Owl, and they can find.

[00:34:21] All those@eddiedollarwill.com. 

[00:34:22] Teddy Smith: Perfect. I know we were talking about podcasts today, but whilst we're talking about your fiction books, I just wanted to have a just ask, just one, just a couple of questions now. What, so what with rock, paper, scissors and that whole world, you've built, what's, you've mentioned, you've got lots of plans for where that's going.

[00:34:36] What's what, what, what's your pro? What you doing with that? What's the plans going forward? 

[00:34:41] Matty Dalrymple: So, the sixth book I think will wrap up Lizzie's arc. So Lizzie Ballard is a young woman. she's, well, she's very, very young at the start of the first book, but in most of the, most of the series, she's 16 or 17 years old.

[00:34:53] And, Due to some nefarious experimentation that, was done on her mother at a fertility clinic, Lizzie is, able to, or, maybe not able to. It sounds too positive, but she can give people strokes with the power of her mind. And so the first, while all the books are really about her dealing with that, her family and her allies, trying to keep her safe and also keep the people around Lizzie safe from her, ability.

[00:35:15] Lizzie's arc is going to be sort of wrapping up in the sixth book. but there is going to be a, Spinoff a thriller series, based on one of the secondary characters. So I'm very excited about that. 

[00:35:26] Teddy Smith: Amazing. And have you done any podcast appearances to promote those books whilst you've been writing them?

[00:35:32] Matty Dalrymple: I have not, probably as much as I should have. And I think this goes back to the idea of, participating in the platforms that you enjoy is best. Like, I'm a huge listener of all podcasts about the, the business side of writing. I'm not a huge listener of, of like book tour type podcasts. Yeah. Unless it's somebody I know, I would be her about it.

[00:35:58] And so, just at the scheme of things and only having like so many hours of the day and having to pick and choose where I, I invest my time, I invest my time in terms of podcast appearances, much more heavily in promoting my. Nonfiction work. and I sort of rely on other outlets, like social media for produce, for, promoting my fiction work.

[00:36:16] Yeah. yeah. 

[00:36:17] Teddy Smith: Maybe it's good to know that you put your strategy in place, like find the, the platforms that work for you and just really double down on them. I think that's really good advice. Yeah, exactly. Well, thanks so much, Comey. It's been a great conversation. I think the listeners are, get loads out of it and Oh, good.

[00:36:30] Yeah, this has 

[00:36:31] Matty Dalrymple: been 

[00:36:31] Teddy Smith: fun. Yeah. Great. Well thanks Camon. I'm looking forward to coming on your podcast soon. yeah, to talk about ads and things like that. but we'll come back to that later. But thanks, Camon, and we'll speak soon. Sounds great. Thank you so much for tuning into this the Publishing Form show.

[00:36:44] I really hope you found today's episode inspiring. I absolutely love chatting to authors, writers, and people in the publishing world. Now, just before we wrap up, I want to tell you about our publishing performance starter packs. These are curated episodes and collections organized by topics. That makes it super easy to find the exact content you're looking for.

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