The Publishing Performance Show

Johnathan McClain - Narrating 200+ Audiobooks: Secrets from an Award Winning Multi-Genre Voice Actor

• Teddy Smith • Episode 85

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Johnathan McClain is a multi-talented creative professional working as a screenwriter, narrator, actor, and novelist. With a background in theater and television, Johnathan transitioned to audiobook narration in 2012, coinciding with Amazon's acquisition of Audible when the demand for narrators exploded. His first major audiobook projects included narrating several Jack Reacher novels, and he has since recorded over 200 books across various genres including sci-fi, fantasy, lit-RPG, mystery thrillers, and romance.


In this episode:

  • Journey from child actor to audiobook narrator
  • Theater experience as preparation for narration
  • Transition from TV to complete performance control
  • Why voice quality alone isn't enough
  • Adapting narration style across genres
  • Preparation process for fiction vs. non-fiction
  • Author-narrator collaboration workflow
  • Best practices for manuscript formatting
  • Challenges of dual vs. duet narration
  • Common narration mistakes and solutions
  • Tips for DIY audiobook narration


Resources mentioned:


Book Recommendations:


Connect with Johnathan McClain:

  • Website: Available for contact through his personal website
  • "Meet Your Maker" - Fantasy series co-written with Seth MacDuffie and published by Podium
  • "Newtown" series - Popular lit-RPG series narrated by Johnathan


Connect with Teddy Smith:




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[00:00:00] Teddy Smith: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Publishing Informant Show. Today I'm super happy to be joined by Jonathan McLean, who is a, a writer, screenwriter, narrator, an actor, and a novelist, and hopefully today we're gonna be talking a bit about narration and also some of his previous work. So thanks for joining us, Jonathan.

[00:00:22] Johnathan McClain: Thank you for having me, Teddy. 

[00:00:24] Teddy Smith: Well, I mean, you've got so many different careers. The, uh, what did you say before you came on the poly? Uh, something poly hyphenate. Poly hyphenate. There we go. But let's start a bit with your backgrounds and how you first got into all of the different jobs that you do. 

[00:00:39] Johnathan McClain: Sure, yeah.

[00:00:40] Johnathan McClain: The quickest route to this is I was a child actor not professionally, but wanted to be an actor. Sort of began my concurrent writing and acting career by virtue of writing a one person show that did quite well in New York and did theater for years, and then wound up getting cast on a TV series and then got cast on a couple more and did TV for a good while.

[00:01:03] Johnathan McClain: And concurrent to that was writing and managed to sell a couple of TV shows that I wrote. And just very, very, very fortunate in film. And then sort of relevant to, I think really what people would be interested in this conversation for is coming off of a TV series that I had been the, the sort of titular lead on for a couple of years.

[00:01:25] Johnathan McClain: In 2012 I got into audiobook, narrating. And for me it was an interesting transition because having been on television for a few years at that point. And having people take my performances away and, you know, chop up different takes and edit things together and splice together. Ultimately, what they wanted to, to have on the screen narration for me was a really welcome relief because I am responsible, right, for the whole thing.

[00:01:56] Johnathan McClain: And they're edited together to sound good, but I'm not, you know, doing 55 takes of a, of a page of. Of, of a novel and then someone is editing one of those in. So, so for me, getting the opportunity to explore that was, was really exciting. And I will also say that timing is everything in life, as you probably well know.

[00:02:15] Johnathan McClain: And you know, 2012 happened to be when Amazon acquired Audible. Yeah. And it was because of that acquisition that the need for audiobook narrators exploded so enthusiastically because they, Amazon was like, well, look, we have hundreds of millions of books and some of them have probably never been made in audio books, and now we have all the money, so just do it.

[00:02:40] Johnathan McClain: And so there was a desperate need for, for audiobook, narrators, and, and so I, I got very lucky to yet again in that the first three books I narrated three of the first four or five, maybe, maybe not the first three. But in that first bunch were Jack Reacher novels were old Jack Reacher novels that had never been recorded.

[00:03:00] Johnathan McClain: Yep. And like three of them books, two, three, and four. And you know. There was a, that was a blessing and a curse because it gave me an opportunity to really jump into the deep end of the audiobook narrating pool. But jumping into a wildly popular series that lots of people are gonna listen to that already has a voice associated with it was a really, it was, it was an awakening to how much people care about audiobooks and audiobook listeners care.

[00:03:30] Johnathan McClain: About the voice that's going into their ears, which makes perfect sense. But I thought, oh, this will be great. They'll, they'll sort of welcome the opportunity to hear a different take than the guy who's been doing it for years. His name, his, he's passed away now, but his name was Dick Hell. And he was a wonderful narrator.

[00:03:44] Johnathan McClain: And I was like, oh, this will be wonderful. And that turned out not to be the case. They were not as excited to hear somebody that they were not used to. But, but, but that was, but that, but, but the thing was it gave me exposure obviously. And so, you know, I learned a lot. I mean, I had to learn fairly quickly Yeah.

[00:04:01] Johnathan McClain: Just how to swim in, in the audio book, you know, realm. And and that's sort of where that led. And then, and then we can or cannot talk about the fact that audio book narrating is what led me to a concurrent novel writing career. Because I've co-written some novels now with authors for whom I have previously written to the, so I have novels out that I've co-written, but also one of the novelists for whom I've narrated Amy Kaufman, who I would say is one of the top 10 most successful novelists that I'd narrate for.

[00:04:35] Johnathan McClain: She's Multiple New York Times bestseller, trad published. Sci-fi writer and Ya sci-fi wildly popular Australian writer. She and I have now worked together in the last decade on I think eight of her books that I've narrated and it's gone so well. I. That she and I over the last couple of years have developed an off book friendship and we actually have written a screenplay together because I write screenplays as well.

[00:04:59] Johnathan McClain: So, so, you know, the audio book thing has also led me to some of the most significant creative collaborations that I have ever had. Yeah, so it's opened up a lot of doors in a lot of different ways. It's been, it's been great. It's been great. That's amazing. 

[00:05:13] Teddy Smith: The point you made just previously about you know, being in people's ears and people, you know, they take it personally when stuff changes like that.

[00:05:20] Teddy Smith: When I went to the conference where I met you, I, I nearly got into a physical fight with someone who said that the American narrator of Harry Potter is better than Stephen Fry. I was like. No way. You guys have gotta, you've gotta gotta calm down on this. Stephen Fry the ultimate here. Well, 

[00:05:33] Johnathan McClain: well, okay.

[00:05:34] Johnathan McClain: Alright. I mean, Jim is, well, so Jim is, I mean, Jim is amazing. Yeah. But, but it's also, I feel like that, that's, I hope it didn't really come to blows, but that I'm, I was joking. 

[00:05:43] Teddy Smith: I'm joking. 

[00:05:44] Johnathan McClain: That is. Yeah. I mean, but to your point, these are real debates that people really have. I mean, I see these debates happening online and people get quite passionate about it.

[00:05:53] Teddy Smith: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, do you think it was your acting backgrounds really that got you, that, that made narrating the next logical step for you? I. 

[00:06:02] Johnathan McClain: I do, I do. Although I don't think that it is my TV and film background that sort of set me up for that. I think it was my, like spending 20 years on the stage that sort of got me acquainted with what the demands of the, the job are.

[00:06:16] Johnathan McClain: Because I, and I've said this before and I've said this for years, but. You know, if you are working in TV and film, it's like you're running sprints. They call action. You sprint, they call cut. If you're doing a play, it's like running a marathon and you just sort of run. And if you are narrating an audiobook, it's an ultra marathon where you start in the mountains and run 127 miles to the sea or something like that.

[00:06:36] Johnathan McClain: Yeah. And, and that, that kind of endurance that facility with language. I mean, I have some Shakespeare training and so forth and so all of that. Yeah, I do think that, and I love, I've historically. I think as much as anything that, in terms of what got me excited about it, yes. I think that, to answer your question specifically, my acting background did set me up for an opportunity to be able to have some facility with it.

[00:07:01] Johnathan McClain: But I'm a big poetry fan. Like I, I love poetry and I just love language and words and as is probably gonna be very evident if it isn't already. I'm a fairly loquacious person. I don't have any, you know, misgivings about talking a lot. I know this about myself. So, so I think that combination of like love of language and the kind of performance muscles that are required to do theater and so forth.

[00:07:26] Johnathan McClain: Yeah, I think that was a, a, I think that was a good opportunity that set me up. Well, a lot of people I think, believe that, or those were opportunities that set me up Well, I think that a lot of people believe that. I've heard this often when people find out that I've narrated audio books or that I do narration they'll say.

[00:07:44] Johnathan McClain: You know, I've been told I have a great voice. Should I get into that? And my response is always like, I, you should certainly try. I would never discourage you. But the voice, it's the voice itself is not really the thing that I think makes an entry. Obviously it needs to be right and it needs to be pleasant, but that's ultimately down to casting, you know, different voices, suit different, whatever.

[00:08:08] Johnathan McClain: But it's, you know, being able to. Run the endurance race that is required to keep the buoyancy and the excitement and the energy of a book up for 10, 12, 14, 18, 20 hours. You know, some nonfiction books can be Ron Chernow's books, for example, or you know, the Hamilton or whatever, like 37, 40, 50 hours. Yeah.

[00:08:30] Johnathan McClain: And you have to. I think, you know, Scott Brick narrated the Hamilton book and Scott is of course, as you know, as seasoned and as good as they come in this industry and and the skillset required to keep someone engaged in that way, that I think is honestly unique to audiobooks. And I don't know if you can learn it any other way than just by doing the craft.

[00:08:55] Johnathan McClain: Mm-hmm. Repeatedly. Yeah. 

[00:08:57] Teddy Smith: Yeah, for sure. 

[00:08:57] Johnathan McClain: You know, that's my feeling on that. 

[00:09:00] Teddy Smith: The, the reason I was asking about your acting background was, so was 'cause the reason we met in the first place was because you you do some audiobooks for podium. That's quite a big production company. And it was one of the people that I've interviewed.

[00:09:11] Teddy Smith: Victoria is one of the first people I interviewed, and I was just wondering about your narration style. Like do you, would you say you have a particular style and do you adapt it at all to fit like different genres or particular authors? 

[00:09:23] Johnathan McClain: Yeah. I don't have, I mean, look, I have a distinct cadence. My rhythms and my rhythms.

[00:09:28] Johnathan McClain: There's a, there's a music to my own sort of way of manipulating language that I think is probably permeable. I think it, you know, penetrates everything. But but one of the things that I am relatively. Invested in making sure I, I, I can do is, is try to narrate across multiple genres. So, you know, I've narrated these sci-fi fantasy novels, I've narrated, I've now become quite.

[00:09:55] Johnathan McClain: Full up with opportunities to narrate lit. RPG, right? Yes. Which is an, an emergent genre. I wouldn't say emerging, I would say it has emerged but still semi recent. Yeah, but I've also, you know, it de it's interesting. I do a lot of that for podium. For podium, I will narrate a lot of lit. RPG Sci-fi Fantasy Random House, for example.

[00:10:16] Johnathan McClain: Sort of identifies me as their mystery thriller slash World War ii biopic bio novel guy, right? So I, that, that's that. And then I've narrated romance mostly under a pseudonym. And then that is its own unique animal. And so. It's funny, I I, I've often said I would've had a much more successful career if I had just picked one of them as opposed to the five that I do.

[00:10:42] Johnathan McClain: And I think the same is probably with audio books, if I had just focused in on narration and then, you know, sort of TikTok niche focused, right? Like, like what's my niche, what's my genre, what's my sub genre? I'd probably be a lot more sort of pronounced in that thing, but. Blessing and curse. I, I, I tend to get bored easily, so it's nice for me.

[00:11:04] Johnathan McClain: And also I really enjoy the idea of non-fiction, tons of non-fiction that I've narrated. Self-help books, things like that. Yeah, so and so in terms of how I execute that, I, yeah, I try to look at those things kind of like I would preparing for a role. You know, this is not me. This is the story of this book.

[00:11:25] Johnathan McClain: It's not Jonathan telling you that story. It's whoever the sort of narrative, whatever the narrative voice requires to tell that story. If it's a first person novel, it's super easy because then it's just find that character and be that character for, and monologue as the first person narrator for however long, when it's third person or nonfiction or something.

[00:11:44] Johnathan McClain: Yeah, I think my, my job then becomes. To figure out what's the most exciting pathway into the story that can hold up over a long listening period of time. And and I do a lot of prep, you know? Yeah. I just do a lot of prep in that regard. 

[00:12:02] Teddy Smith: With that prep work could we split it into two? So the, there's fiction and nonfiction.

[00:12:06] Teddy Smith: Yeah. With that prep work, how does it usually work with you and the author and how you work together? What does that preparation look like and does, for example, the author need to prepare anything specific for you? 

[00:12:16] Johnathan McClain: Mm-hmm. It really depends. There are authors who have no interest in being involved in the process whatsoever.

[00:12:24] Johnathan McClain: You know, who are on their yacht or whatever, and have already sold their million books and this is their 50th book, and they just want, they, they're, they're barely even aware that it's being narrated. Right. Right. So that that happens. 

[00:12:36] Teddy Smith: Yeah. 

[00:12:37] Johnathan McClain: Then obviously with people I've collaborated with frequently for years, I have a, a, an inroad to them.

[00:12:43] Johnathan McClain: Normally I will through the publisher. I've never narrated for someone, not through a publisher, whether they're a large house or a small house. I've never narrated for someone just one-to-one. So I don't know what that would be like that. Feels like it would be a very easy way to make sure that you're hitting all the X's and O's.

[00:13:01] Johnathan McClain: I typically ask the publisher to get in touch with the author if I have specific questions. By the time I've been asked to come on a book though, you know, I've either been requested by the author or I've been recommended by a casting team and they've heard my work. Or in some instances, and I'm not about, I'm even at the point that I am now, and I know some people don't like to audition.

[00:13:22] Johnathan McClain: I don't care. I'll audition for anything. If it's like, this person wants to hear you do this thing that you've already done 55 times, I'm like, okay, I'll do their thing, and they'll see if they like it. So usually by the time I get into the book. We're all on the same page in terms of general tone and so forth.

[00:13:40] Johnathan McClain: And then the question asking mostly becomes about you know, this character whose name seems unpronounceable, how would you like it done? You know, that kind of thing. 

[00:13:49] Teddy Smith: Yeah. 

[00:13:49] Johnathan McClain: I, there's a lot of tr that there's a lot of trust put on a narrator, a lot of trust put on a narrator by the author and the publisher to trust that you are going to, you know.

[00:14:01] Johnathan McClain: Give them what it is that they are expecting and, and and I feel like, I feel like, you know, if the intention is right, then generally it works out pretty well. I, I, there aren't, look, I'm not gonna say any names or anything, but there are anecdotal there anecdotes out there. I know of, of people having recorded books and it's not gone well, and they've had to rerecord them.

[00:14:23] Johnathan McClain: These things do happen, but it's exceedingly rare because I think that the process is set up to make sure that you've got the right person before you start the job. You know what I mean? 

[00:14:33] Teddy Smith: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, if, if writers are coming to you with manuscripts, is that usually just a case of just giving you the book or is there a, is there a way of formatting it that means it's easier for you to read out?

[00:14:43] Teddy Smith: Like kind of more like a script? 

[00:14:45] Johnathan McClain: That's a great question. So yeah, if, if I have had some, there are some publishers, smaller ones who will send me Microsoft Word Doc versions, just like the actual version that they proved for. Okay. Right. And I just have my assistant like convert that into a PDF and whatever, so that I can, so that I can put it into a software on my iPad called I annotate.

[00:15:09] Johnathan McClain: Right. I annotate is great because. As opposed to other softwares where you sort of like fan through pages, like you might on Kindle, it's a scroll, so I can just keep the page scrolling and there's no, there's no sound and it doesn't hiccup at all and so forth. And you can also make notations right on the document in that software.

[00:15:28] Johnathan McClain: So if in my prep I need to remember. That this character speaks with an Irish lilt or whatever. But that's not revealed until much later. I will, you know, make a notation the first time we hear them speak in the margins of the thing and so forth. So yeah, like getting it, getting, getting like a nice clean PDF is great.

[00:15:49] Johnathan McClain: Ideally formatted the way that it would be formatted for ebook or for print. So that it sort of looks on the page the way it would look to a reader because on some sort of subconscious level, I feel like that makes a difference. Mm. I feel like if I am reading aloud a book that is formatted in the way that I would be reading it, if I were just sitting in my bed reading before I went to sleep, then there is a natural sort of musical, like I keep going back to this idea of rhythm and tone, but I think it matters.

[00:16:22] Johnathan McClain: There's a natural sort of cadence that evolves from that, that if you're just reading a scrunched up bunch of texts, just like all formatted together, single spaced or whatever is a much harder thing to do. It's, that's just a harder lift. The other thing I would say to authors, any author sort of starting out, if they wanna do a big, big, big favor for their narrator just really spend the money and time to make sure it is fully proofed, like really well, because.

[00:16:50] Johnathan McClain: The, a challenging thing is to have to edit on the fly. Because something that can be fine in, in a typo on the page if you're reading. Okay. A reader's gonna like, understand what that's supposed to be. But I can't read that aloud because that will sound insane. You know, if I, some, some something that's, or some syntax that's out of whack or some grammar that's not right.

[00:17:10] Johnathan McClain: So having everything really clean not only makes, it makes the process smoother in terms of the output, but it makes my job infinitely easier. Like I've often said, I would prefer to be paid. This is terrible. Whatever. I'll say it. I would prefer to be paid more. I'll work for cheap for a great book. But if it's a terrible book or if it's like, really badly put together or really badly constructed, you're gonna have to pay me more to do it.

[00:17:38] Johnathan McClain: Does that make sense? Right. 

[00:17:39] Teddy Smith: Yeah. 

[00:17:39] Johnathan McClain: You know, you're 

[00:17:41] Teddy Smith: a bit, you're a bit picky of who you can work with now, I guess. 

[00:17:44] Johnathan McClain: I, I, I, I'm not, well, it's, nah, it's not that I'm picky. I mean, I'll, I honestly, if I get excited about the idea of a story, even, I'll, I'll do it. I'll do it a hundred percent. I think people have, there are narrators out there who are booked.

[00:17:59] Johnathan McClain: I. However long out in the distance and, you know, can't be gotten to or whatever. But a good example is, I, I'm, I'm gonna cycle off of me for a second and talk about Julia Whelan, who is probably the preeminent female audiobook narrator on the planet. The way, right? Yeah. Right. She's narrated I think a thousand or more.

[00:18:20] Johnathan McClain: She is herself a two-time New Yorker. New York Times bestseller. She's the only narrator that I know who's ever been profiled on CBS Sunday morning. She's the only narrator that I know who's, you know, had two puff pieces written about her in the New York Times. And she's also started her own audiobook company, actually recently called Audio Bra.

[00:18:38] Johnathan McClain: And I was very fortunate to be asked to, to be part of the inaugural offering in that it was a book that she wrote. And she had four narrators, three men in her, and I was one of them. The reason I brought her up is that we met because I had written a novel that had a interstitial chapters that required a, a separate voice and podium, who you mentioned published that novel.

[00:19:03] Johnathan McClain: I know them very well. We go way back and I said, they said, well, who would you like for these chapters? I was like, well, I'd like Julia Whelan. But I mean, good luck making that happen. And they showed it to her and she was like, oh no, this is cool. Yeah, no, I'm into this. Let's do it. And and that's how I feel about it.

[00:19:23] Johnathan McClain: Like if it's something cool or whatever and it feels fun and it feels exciting, if I feel like I can bring something to it. I've only a couple of times ever passed on something, honestly. And one was a biography of someone that I know who's very famous, and it was an unauthorized biography. I simply couldn't do that.

[00:19:43] Johnathan McClain: You know, I'm not gonna, if, if my famous friend was like, don't write a book about me, and they did it anyway, I'm certainly not gonna narrate it. And the other one was a few years back was I'm also not particularly squeamish. I'll, I'll, I'll talk about anything. I'll narrate anything. I'll narrate the hardest of hardcore erotica.

[00:19:58] Johnathan McClain: I don't care. But there was one book that I, that I thought lacked merit. Artistically to be polite. That I, I, I bowed out of, but that's it. Like, other than that, I've narrated what, like 200 something books at this point. Cool. So, you know, I mean, I'm more than happy to jump into anything. Anybody listening, hit me.

[00:20:20] Johnathan McClain: Shoot, hit me up on my website. I'm available. I. 

[00:20:26] Teddy Smith: When you're doing the erotica books, do you have to use sound effects as well, or is it just the words 

[00:20:32] Johnathan McClain: I you look, if post-production wants to put in, you know, like some Wawa guitar, some squeaking bag coils or something like that, that's up to them. I some 

[00:20:39] Teddy Smith: Marvin Gate.

[00:20:40] Johnathan McClain: Yeah, exactly right. Some Luther Vandross in the background. I, no, I, yeah, I mean, it is, it is, it's, it's look narrating stuff like that is, is frequently dual narration. I. More and more it's duet, narration. The difference of course, being in case anyone doesn't know dual narration is you have a guy narrating the guy's chapters and a woman narrating the woman's duet.

[00:21:02] Johnathan McClain: Okay. 

[00:21:03] Teddy Smith: Yep. 

[00:21:03] Johnathan McClain: Is what I did with Julia on this book that I just mentioned of hers, which is Sebastian York. Very, very famous, very probably the preeminent romance narrator for men at least. Sebastian did the, primary narration, but in the scenes with other characters, she cast those. And so then it was edited together like a little radio play.

[00:21:25] Johnathan McClain: Like I would talk when I was playing my character, Eduardo Ballerini would talk when he was playing his character. She would do her thing. And so that's duet narration. And so, duets great because then you're just playing your character and it's not that challenging. Dual is hard because. You're narrating with someone else, but in your sections and chapters, you're narrating both halves.

[00:21:48] Johnathan McClain: So you're also wanting to try and honor as much as possible, like what, in my case, what the woman's voice is for the character that she's performing. And then she's gonna try and the best that she can emulate the quality that I bring to the thing. And you don't, you know, there are, if anyone listening knows who Jeff Hayes is, like Jeff is.

[00:22:11] Johnathan McClain: Jeff narrates the Dungeon Crawler Carl series. Mm-hmm. Which is arguably one of the most popular audio books on the planet, and rightly so. Jeff's, Jeff's, Jeff's freakishly gifted and his female voice, I mean, it sounds like he, it sounds like he's got a whole cast and it's just him. Right? It's mind boggling.

[00:22:26] Johnathan McClain: It's mind boggling. Yeah. I don't have that skillset. That's nice. That's not me. So I just try and find like the general attitude and energy of a character as best I'm able and then inject it, inject that into it. And so to your question about sound effects and whatever, I mean no, other than I don't wanna make it sound stupid.

[00:22:46] Johnathan McClain: I wanna make sure I don't sound dumb, especially when I'm doing like a, a breathless lady who's caught up in the throes of passion. I wanna make sure that doesn't sound insane and pull the listener out. You know, like there's a fine, there's a fine needle you have to thread when you're trying to, you know, do an orgasm in, in audiobook and someone's gonna have to listen to this and they probably have earbuds in.

[00:23:08] Johnathan McClain: And you don't want, I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's. It's the most hilarious job in the world, honestly, you know? 

[00:23:17] Teddy Smith: Yeah. That is amazing. Yeah. Now, it sounds like with your first, or do books, so you narrated, you kind of, 'cause obviously you had a bit background and you already had success in acting and other I.

[00:23:28] Teddy Smith: All the other things you do. Right. It sounds like some of your first audio books were actually relatively successful books already, but if we, yeah. If we just think back to when you were just starting out and, you know, a lot of people who listen to these books, they're not necessarily they're sort of towards the beginning of their writing journey, so maybe they're not at the level where they could get someone like podium style production.

[00:23:50] Johnathan McClain: Right, right, right, right, right, 

[00:23:51] Teddy Smith: right. When they're selecting a narrator, what sort of things should they look for when they're trying to get a best fit for their book? 

[00:23:56] Johnathan McClain: It's a great question. Look, I think that shoot for the moon, if you have a narrator that you really like, like I just said, if you know what I mean.

[00:24:04] Johnathan McClain: Most of us have websites, most of us have contact tabs on those websites. Reach out to the narrator that you love. If you have someone, shoot, shoot for the stars first. I would say always just give it a go. Who knows? So that would be the first thing. The, if you don't have a voice in your head, if you don't have someone in mind, then you've created the material.

[00:24:29] Johnathan McClain: You have every right to request auditions, and there are. Voice casting websites. There's a CX, of course, a CX through Audible, right? A CX is where a lot of pairings can happen because that's a self-produced arm of Audible. Are you on ACX 

[00:24:48] Teddy Smith: as well, or, or not? 

[00:24:49] Johnathan McClain: I am not. I am not. But, but I do know that, you know, plenty of.

[00:24:55] Johnathan McClain: Narrators who, or someone asked me recently, how do you get into narrating? I was like, ah. When I did it, it was a little bit easier. It's a, and now PS I'm gonna digress from my own point to mention that. I will say the challenge that exists now, it's both a blessing and a curse that everyone can sort of do it from home.

[00:25:15] Johnathan McClain: Mm-hmm. Yeah, because, you know, in 2012 there weren't real, I mean, I didn't have, I didn't have a home studio until 2020, and the only reason I even got one. Was because Covid happened and I owed books to people and I had to figure out how to do them. I was always going to production houses and studios and so, so the competition is stiffer because there's lots of people with the resources to buy a mic and a preamp and get it set up.

[00:25:39] Johnathan McClain: So, but the, the, the, the benefit to that is you go to a CX, you go to that casting pool and you just listen through to the voices that feel like they might match the material that you've written. And most people will have. Identified the age range, the sort of Right. 30 to 35 female that can play 22, you know what I mean?

[00:26:04] Johnathan McClain: Like the, the, the, the genres that they feel like they excel in the age range, the quality of voice, the, the pitch, the so forth slash on. And I think it's kind of like if anybody who's listening to this has ever played in a band and you've like auditioned band mates. Everybody's, ah, okay. We need a new bass player.

[00:26:25] Johnathan McClain: Well, they can all play bass, but something about that person just felt like the one that feels like their style matches with what we're doing. That's the one. And, and there's that intangible quality that I think you have to listen for. And then everything else is just up to like personality and do you vibe and are their rates right and you know, all that kind of stuff.

[00:26:46] Johnathan McClain: But, but a CX is the best resource that I know of. I mean, audible really does have the market largely cornered. Yeah. You know, 

[00:26:54] Teddy Smith: there's find a way voices for people that aren't in So A CXI think's only available still for uk, US and Aus, maybe Ireland. But I think that's, so I think find away voices is a good option for people who aren't find 

[00:27:05] Johnathan McClain: away voices.

[00:27:06] Teddy Smith: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's quite a good one too. 

[00:27:10] Johnathan McClain: I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure. A quick, a quick, you know, internet search would tell you where you can find any number of places to track down narrative. Yeah. 

[00:27:20] Teddy Smith: What's the, what's the publishing process like when you're working with a company like Podium? So what I mean by that is like, from giving you the script, how, how long does it take to usually get that book pub published using po something like podium or professional service like yourself.

[00:27:35] Teddy Smith: Mm-hmm. And how, how long does that take? 

[00:27:39] Johnathan McClain: Depends on the series. I think some, some of, you know, if it's a really popular series, they're gonna want to have a lot of lead time. So the book will be up for pre-order months before anything actually goes into production. I'll give you the example that I have off the top of my head right now is I finished 'cause I have several getting ready to come out that I finished at the end of last year.

[00:27:58] Johnathan McClain: So I have. Over the next two months, I think three or four titles coming out that I wrapped primary principal production on principal recording on in December. And then one of them, I just did pickups. So, so I think from start to finish, you know, it can take a number of weeks to record a book. Maybe I should dial in on that first.

[00:28:25] Johnathan McClain: If you have a timeline. Then you should make sure that the person that you're getting involved with has the time to give to it. You know, if it's a big traditional publishing house, like Random House or Harper or something like that, they are assuming that you're going to give them six hour days, seven hour days recording every day, and that 12 hour book will be done in three days, four days, whatever, right?

[00:28:53] Johnathan McClain: Mm-hmm. When I'm recording, self recording with no direct or no other engineer, and I'm just at home and I'm alone, I'm by myself. I usually try to say if it's, if it's say a 15 hour book or will, will come out to be roughly that, which is approximately 150,000 words. It's not a one to one, but it's, it's roughly that.

[00:29:11] Johnathan McClain: I will ask for three weeks to a month to get it recorded because. With everything else I've got going on, I can't do a seven hour day every day. So it'll be like a couple chapters a night before I, you know, before I go to bed or whatever. So the recording process can take three to four weeks, two to three weeks, give or take.

[00:29:31] Johnathan McClain: If you're talking about just self recording and then. The mastering and engineering process, I don't do that myself. There are narrators who do have that skillset and we're happy to do it. And usually, you know, when I'm approached by a new publisher, they'll ask me what my rate is and I tell them, and then they say, okay, is that for everything or, and I'm like, no, you're also gonna have to hire somebody else.

[00:29:53] Johnathan McClain: I'm sorry. That's 

[00:29:53] Teddy Smith: what is it? Yeah. 

[00:29:54] Johnathan McClain: You. But but then that part has to happen. And then of course, once it's been listened to and, and sweetened and mastered, then the pickups happen. You know? And I think that, I think that if you're a narrator, by the way, this is a mistake I made early on, and I'll just say this for anybody who might be curious about this.

[00:30:14] Johnathan McClain: If you're a narrator and you're starting out, don't worry about making mistakes. Go for performance, go for delivering the material, deliver the best book you possibly can. And if you're doing punch and roll and you hiccup, it doesn't matter. No one's gonna have to edit that out. You stop. So as opposed to sort of free roll where you just make mistakes and then an editor later will clean it up.

[00:30:36] Johnathan McClain: And that's a very rare thing that rarely happens anymore. Most of the time you're stopping placing your, you know, your marker back where the track. Had a hiccup and then picking it up and you're still gonna have mistakes that you've missed or things that your eyes read wrong or whatever, don't worry about it.

[00:30:54] Johnathan McClain: Those things can be cleaned up. Those things can be put in what you can't. No, I'm less interested. I'm gonna get on, I'm not gonna get on my AI soapbox, but if you wanted a perfect read that had absolutely no mistakes in it, just get a computer to do it. Like if you're, you know, give it everything and, and don't worry about.

[00:31:14] Johnathan McClain: Perfection. So I think that I've seen books go from start to finish anywhere from couple of weeks. Like truly like really being turned around fast to most of the time. The ones I'm doing for podium, for example, I get the script in November. I record in December. The book will come out in March, right?

[00:31:37] Johnathan McClain: Yep. So, I think that some of those are ready now. A couple of 'em are like done. And I think again, the, the, the long lead time is just about the popularity of the series and giving people a chance to pre-order and, and that kind of thing. Yeah. But the last thing I'll say in regard to this, which is a tangential point, but also know what your boundaries are when you're recording.

[00:31:56] Johnathan McClain: If, if you're someone who wants to narrate and you're listening to this, don't, don't push yourself. For seven hours, eight hours, 10 hours. It just like give it, give the work it's due, you know? Yeah. Because at the end of the day, this will be memorialized for good. It will be done, it will be out there.

[00:32:14] Johnathan McClain: And these are the books that if I, I wish I could go back and rerecord those jack richer books knowing what I know now, you know? Yeah. I would, I would've done a better job, frankly. So just make sure you're giving it your all because that's, that's your, that's your work out there. That's your voice, you 

[00:32:27] Teddy Smith: know?

[00:32:27] Teddy Smith: Yeah. Sure. That's really good advice. Now, I know you are narrating your own book, and I know it's under a pseudonym, but it's still I'm not, no, 

[00:32:35] Johnathan McClain: no. The book I'm Narrating, no. My own books that I'm narrating now. Are under my name down playing Roe and Narrates. Yeah, 

[00:32:42] Teddy Smith: right. Okay. Sorry. So technically you are DIYing it.

[00:32:45] Teddy Smith: Now I know you're professional so it doesn't count as DIYing it, but a lot of authors now there's ways you can sort of narrate the books yourself. And especially when people are on a bit of a budget or they maybe it's a self, especially if it's a nonfiction book. Sometimes people wanna be like. The, the face of their book.

[00:33:00] Teddy Smith: Now, have you got any tips, people who are starting out trying to do a narration of their own book and anything, any skills they might need to skill up on? 

[00:33:08] Johnathan McClain: Sure. Give yourself more time than you think you need because when it's your own book, you're going to go back and rerecord everything a dozen times because you know exactly what you intended.

[00:33:18] Johnathan McClain: It takes me longer to record my own books. And, and to be clear, I should be clear, like my books are, are published by this novel series that I have out right now is being published by podium. Yeah. So I, I am I. I'm technically double dipping, so I'm getting Yeah, you're cheesy. The money for the books.

[00:33:34] Johnathan McClain: And then but but I, I think that to tips, know, know your, know your boundaries, know your limitations. Be the most honest version that you can, as much as it, this is just from someone who has been in front of a camera for over half my life. It is very easy in a microphone. It is very easy to get self-conscious about these things.

[00:34:00] Johnathan McClain: To whatever degree you can. Separate yourself from the product, separate yourself from the, the idea that you know, the end product needs to sound like this or be like this or whatever, and enjoy the process. Remember why, especially if you're a writer, even if it's nonfiction. Why did you wanna write this book?

[00:34:22] Johnathan McClain: What did you want to say? What about it is important? Why is that important? And remember to just hold onto that in everything that you say when you're speaking the words aloud. The other great advice, and this is, this is something that you, I've done commercial and you know, video game narration and stuff too, but especially in commercials and auditioning for, for adverts and so forth, for voiceover.

[00:34:48] Johnathan McClain: The best advice that you'll get from any like voiceover coaching person is talk to one person. Tell the story like you're telling it to one person. Okay. Tell it like you're telling it to your best friend who you, if it's a nonfiction, like, man, this really cool thing that I know about, that you should know about bro, or Yeah, last or whatever and tell it to one person and.

[00:35:12] Johnathan McClain: If it's fiction and it's something that it feels like it's cinematic and whatever, tell it like you're telling it around a campfire. But, but you know, find that group of people that you're talking to or that person that you're talking to and talk to them. The other thing I would say is it is physically harder than you're going to expect it to be if you've not done it.

[00:35:36] Johnathan McClain: The microphone picks up everything. So you can't move, you can't shuffle, you can't breathe wrong. You have to make sure that you're limiting mouth noise. A lot of these things can be cleaned up in after effects and so forth. But it is, it is an endurance test. I mean, sometimes I come out of the booth really exhausted, like really physically tired.

[00:36:00] Johnathan McClain: Yep. And also give yourself a break if like, you get into the booth and it's not going. Stop, go eat a sandwich, come back. You know what I mean? Like figure f Get yourself into a place where you're excited to share the work that you've written. Yeah. That's the best thing I, that's the best thing I can offer.

[00:36:18] Johnathan McClain: And remember always that it's not about you. This is something I don't think a lot of people talk about, but, or maybe they don't, maybe they know it and don't say it, or maybe they don't know it. I don't narrate audio books so that people will think I'm awesome. I narrate audiobooks because I love telling stories and I want people to enjoy the stories that I'm telling.

[00:36:42] Johnathan McClain: It's not about me. My job is to be the del, the delivery mechanism for the story. So like get out of the way and let the story be the star. And I know that's a very sort of high-minded concept, but, but I think it's important. 

[00:37:00] Teddy Smith: Yeah, that's really important. Take your ego out of it. Remember you're trying to.

[00:37:04] Teddy Smith: Read the book, not promote yourself. I think that's quite good advice. 

[00:37:07] Johnathan McClain: Yeah. Yeah. And, and at the end of the day, like this is what I, when I talk about, you know, I narrated books that I've narrated, books that I don't like, like that aren't for me, that aren't books that I would read, but, but they're for somebody I.

[00:37:21] Johnathan McClain: I just try to remember like there's somebody who's out there who's, you know, gonna enjoy this. And I, I owe it to them to give it my all. I owe it to them to give it my all because they've made a commitment. Yeah. Someone recently asked me, does it bum you out if you get bad reviews? And I'm like, yeah, but not because I feel like bad for me it's because, 'cause I've got, I've got almost an overly healthy ego, frankly.

[00:37:43] Johnathan McClain: Probably too, too healthy. But, but it makes me feel like sad because I. I didn't mean to give you a bad experience. It makes me sad because like, oh, I'm sorry you hated it. I mean, I don't take it personally. I just wish that I made your, I made your day go badly and now I'm sad. You know what I mean?

[00:38:00] Johnathan McClain: That's how I feel about it. So, so, but that's, that, that's centered in this idea of try to give the gift as opposed to making about you. Yeah. 

[00:38:08] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. You mentioned a couple of mistakes that people that you make and are there any common mistakes that you find either you make or that narrators make, and is there any ways you try and overcome them?

[00:38:21] Teddy Smith: You mentioned mouth noises and things like that, but are there any things Mouth noises? Yeah. 

[00:38:24] Johnathan McClain: Yeah, that's, that's, that's a, that's a, that's a real thing. I mean, that's a real thing. And you know, if keep a bottle of water in the booth. Make 

[00:38:35] Teddy Smith: himself conscious, definitely a bottle bottle, water in 

[00:38:36] Johnathan McClain: the booth.

[00:38:38] Johnathan McClain: Keep hydrated. If you hear it coming, if you feel like, oh, I've been talking for a while and I can now it's getting a little dry mouth, it's also hard to self, the more you do it, the easier it becomes to like, be self editorial as you're going. But you know, you don't wanna get overly consumed with worrying about these things, as I said before, you, 'cause those things can be fixed.

[00:38:57] Johnathan McClain: But for me, an obsession is. Even though I know that the editors and mastering teams that I'm sending this stuff off to are professionals and they're very good, I don't trust people to always get the like little breaths out. And so if I have to stop and, and punch in I. I make sure that I have lined up the queue exactly so that you're not gonna get a little like at the beginning, because if you get a little clipped at the beginning, you'll know that it was edited.

[00:39:29] Johnathan McClain: I mean, I try to send in my files as sounding as much like the final as possible. So that you attune your, you will attune yourself eventually to listening for, I live in la, which is, as we record this, you know, beset by fires. Yeah, I'm under a possible evacuation notice at the moment in my house.

[00:39:49] Johnathan McClain: And so I. You know, there will be planes and fire trucks I have to record today. If I don't get evacuated, I will be recording. And I just need to make sure that my ear is tuned for a truck rolling down the street or a plane flying by, or a helicopter trying to be sensitive to that. And once you get sensitive to that, by the way, you notice it every day in all parts of your life, it becomes maddening.

[00:40:12] Johnathan McClain: So those things, but, but yeah, just don't, don't over, don't overexert yourself. Know what your limitations are. And, and remember this, it's a muscle, and just like any muscle, the more you do it, the stronger the muscle will become. You know, the weight of recording an audiobook has not gotten lighter.

[00:40:29] Johnathan McClain: I've just gotten stronger at lifting it, right? Yeah. So, so just and practice, practice, practice, practice. Even if you're not, you know, even if you're not getting paid for it, spend some time behind a mic. Just practicing recording things. And anybody else starting out? A note that I would say is get a good mic, but don't get a great mic.

[00:40:51] Johnathan McClain: By which I mean get a mic that gives a nice, good quality, a nice sound. I use an audio Technica 40 40 and a solo focus, right? Preamp. It's nothing exotic. It's great. And I've now recorded over a hundred books on it. The mic I got is good enough to get exactly the sound that I want, but not so good that it's gonna pick up all those little creeks of my house settling and so forth, like I talked about a second ago.

[00:41:15] Johnathan McClain: So that that's, you don't have to spend $3,000 on a mic. You can spend 300 bucks on a great mic, on a good mic, and it's good enough to do what you need it to do. 

[00:41:25] Teddy Smith: Yeah. 

[00:41:25] Johnathan McClain: So that would be the other thing I would suggest. 

[00:41:27] Teddy Smith: Yeah, that's great advice. Now just the last question. So obviously you've worked on some amazing books like Jack Reach books and Lee Child.

[00:41:34] Teddy Smith: Yeah. Which, that must have been absolutely amazing. What projects have you got coming up this year that are really exciting? I. 

[00:41:41] Johnathan McClain: Well, I will continue narrating my own series which is a sexy series. No, this, no, this is, so, this is this fantasy series. It's a five book fantasy series that I'm co-writing with Seth McDuffy, who is a, a fairly successful fantasy sci-fi lit RPG author.

[00:41:56] Johnathan McClain: It's called Meet Your Maker. We signed a, a, a multi-book deal with podium, and the first one came out in October. And the reason I bring it up in part is because. Apropos of our conversation. It just got a very nice review in Audio File Magazine, which is another place, you know, one can look to see what's going on.

[00:42:13] Johnathan McClain: It got a very, very nice review. And, and it's, I knew it was. Something that I was proud of, like, I'm not ambiguous about that, but it's nice when, you know, a trade publication ratifies your, your estimation of yourself. So, so that, that will be a large part of my year, honestly, because I have to write it and narrate it.

[00:42:31] Johnathan McClain: So the second one so that's a big thing coming up there is a lit RPG series. I narrate this probably the most well known. It is called the Noob Town Series. The Mayor of Nobe Town was the first of these books in 2019, and we are now into Book eight, which is War of the Noobs, and that is the one I just finished and turned in.

[00:42:51] Johnathan McClain: And the one that I probably get asked about on social media and stuff the most I have a, like I say, several other new series that I'm starting that, that have been sent my way. But invariably. The year will get, I, you know, I have my year plotted out, but invariably I'm gonna get a call about something or an email about something that I can't say no to.

[00:43:11] Johnathan McClain: And, and I will absolutely be over the moon to jump in. There are a couple of mystery writers who release about a book a year. Wonderful, wonderful New York Times, you know, bestselling author called Lin Wood Barkley, who I narrate his books now. I know he has a new one coming out, so I'm hopeful that, that that will be a fit for me.

[00:43:29] Johnathan McClain: Yeah, like I said, I got like 20 this year that I know of which funnily doesn't feel like a lot anymore. There would've been a time when I would've said, oh my God, how am I gonna do it? And I'm like, I can take 10 more. Yeah, that'd be fine. So, so those are some, I don't know, those are things to look, I mean, the other thing is if you just type in my name, Jonathan McClean, make sure you spell Jonathan.

[00:43:49] Johnathan McClain: J-O-H-N-A-T-H-A-N because that is how it is spelled. Yeah. You type my name into Audible. You can see everything I've got coming up. Oh, and that's the other thing, by the way, anybody who's getting into to audio books on either side. You know, audible's great about giving you those five minute samples.

[00:44:05] Johnathan McClain: Yeah. So find other books that you feel like they're complimentary to, either the style that you wanna do or that you've written or whatever. And just listen to the samples of those narrators. That's a great, like free education in how to get your, your mouth around the process or your ears around it if you're looking for somebody.

[00:44:22] Teddy Smith: Yeah. Great. That's really good advice. You've got a bit of a quiet year then coming up, which is quite nice. 

[00:44:28] Johnathan McClain: Well, that's just the recording thing. I also, yeah, I'm joking. Have two TV series and a thing and Yeah. No, it's funny. It's funny you say that and I'm like, if it were just the recording, it would be quiet.

[00:44:39] Johnathan McClain: It would be great. I could totally do that. Yeah. Yeah, I could totally do that. If I didn't also have to write a book in two movies and pitch two TV shows, like it would all be fine. And at some point I. I'm gonna get tired of all of this, and I'm deeply grateful that audio books exist, and I certainly hope that I can continue on with it because this is the thing that I can see myself doing into my seventies and eighties long after my ability to, you know, go into a room of TV executives and make them love me is over.

[00:45:08] Johnathan McClain: I can still sit in a dark room and talk. 

[00:45:10] Teddy Smith: You'll, you'll be like Michael Kane, where you suddenly get that wise voice, which and starts being slowly, totally, yeah, totally. Well, thank you so much, Jonathan, for coming on. It's been fascinating to speak to you. Yeah, good luck with the rest of the eve.

[00:45:23] Teddy Smith: Sounds like you've got a lot going on, so I'm looking forward to seeing what comes up next. 

[00:45:26] Johnathan McClain: Thanks Teddy. Thanks for having me. 

[00:45:28] Teddy Smith: So just before we go we always ask this question to everyone and that's what's a book you recommend everyone should be reading.

[00:45:38] Johnathan McClain: I'll give you two. One I have nothing to do with and one I have a lot to do with, james the Percival novel that was out last year. That's the story of Jim, the Slave from the Huck Finn books told from Slave James perspective. 

[00:45:55] Teddy Smith: Okay. 

[00:45:56] Johnathan McClain: It was a short, it was shortlisted for the Booker. It Orbital is the book that won the booker this year.

[00:46:01] Johnathan McClain: But James is it's an important, it's, IM, it's important, you know what I mean? It's an important book. So read that, listen to that. And then my best friend and sometimes collaborator, he and I wrote a film together called The Outfit that starred Mark Rylance. My friend Graham Moore is an Academy Award winning screenwriter.

[00:46:23] Johnathan McClain: He wrote The Imitation Game, but he's also a novelist and his most recent novel called The Wealth of Shadows. Right, that I ha that I happen to narrate. So not only is he my best friend and sometime co-writer, but I also narrated the book. But it's wonderful. I if, if I said to you, Hey, you wanna read the most interesting book about trying to establish the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank in order to perhaps cripple the Nazis attack on America 1939.

[00:46:50] Johnathan McClain: You'd be like, does such a book exist? And I would say, yes it does. And it's called The Wealth of Shadows. Like he's such a good writer that he made everything I just said sound interesting. So I would recommend that people check that. 'cause I think it's a wonderful, wonderful piece of work. So those are the two that I would, that I would, that I would go for.

[00:47:06] Johnathan McClain: And I'm sure Malcolm Gladwell probably has something out right now that I don't know about, but anytime Gladwell drops a book, like 

[00:47:12] Teddy Smith: read that 

[00:47:13] Johnathan McClain: because they're always great. 

[00:47:14] Teddy Smith: Yeah. I dunno how you time to read it, but yeah, I'm sure you'll fit it in. 

[00:47:18] Johnathan McClain: I'll figure it out. 

[00:47:19] Teddy Smith: Yeah. Well, good luck the rest of the year.

[00:47:21] Teddy Smith: It is fascinating chatting to you and thanks for coming on the show. We'll speak soon. 

[00:47:24] Johnathan McClain: Thank you, Teddy. Thank you. 

[00:47:25] Teddy Smith: Thank you so much for tuning into the Publishing performance podcast. I really hope you found today's episode inspiring. I love chatting to authors, writers, and people in the publishing world now.

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