The Publishing Performance Show

John DeMato - The Book Boudoir: Professional Photography that Sells More Books

• Teddy Smith • Episode 78

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John DeMato is a visual storytelling expert and professional photographer who specializes in creating compelling visual content for entrepreneurs, authors, speakers, and consultants. After transitioning from a career as a television field producer, John found his niche in branding photography, which eventually led him to develop Book Boudoir - a specialized service creating high-quality, strategic photographs of books for marketing purposes. With his background in visual storytelling, John helps authors elevate their brand presence through professional imagery that showcases not just their book covers, but the valuable content inside.


In this episode:

  • John's journey from TV production to specialized photography
  • The origin story behind Book Boudoir
  • Creating strategic visual assets for book marketing
  • Photographing book interiors to showcase valuable content
  • Using professional book photography for Amazon A+ content
  • How authors use book photos in presentations and marketing materials
  • The importance of visual storytelling in building authority
  • Strategic approaches to professional photography
  • Tips for authors on budget-friendly photography options
  • The Book Boudoir process from consultation to final portfolio


Resources mentioned:


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[00:00:00] Teddy Smith: Hi everyone. Welcome to the Publishing Performance Show. I'm really happy today to be joined by John DeMato, who is a visual storytelling expert and also the founder of DeMato Production. So thank you very much for joining me, Don. 

[00:00:16] John DeMato: Well, Teddy, thanks for the invitation. I'm looking forward to talking about some photos with you.

[00:00:20] Teddy Smith: Yeah, great. So why don't you tell me a bit about your backgrounds? 'cause I know you're a photographer and you also specialize in visual, visual storytelling for. Entrepreneurs, authors, speakers, and things like that. But gimme a bit about your backgrounds and what led you, led you into photography. 

[00:00:35] John DeMato: Well, what led me into this world back in 2017 was I.

[00:00:41] John DeMato: What's a good way to put this? I'd say utter frustration with trying to be a jack of all trades and a master of none. I mean, I had, prior to being a professional photographer, I worked in television as a field producer for a talk show in New York City and then in Stanford, Connecticut. And once I quit, I was photographing headshots and.

[00:01:06] John DeMato: By that I mean once every six months. And in between all of that, I shot 9 million networking events and different types of corporate outings and dating profiles and pictures of dogs and all this other crap that I would do and. But around 20 16, 20 17 is when a light bulb moment happened when I encountered a professional personal branding specialist who needed photos for her social media to help promote an upcoming book, and it was through that conversation that led to me thinking about how I can create opportunities to shoot stuff that.

[00:01:50] John DeMato: A was more interesting to me, but B and more importantly was more valuable to more people. Yeah. So that's what helped form this branding photography business that then led into shooting live events and trainings and other things of that nature, which then ultimately led to photographing these people's books.

[00:02:13] John DeMato: Yeah, so that's where I'm coming from. 

[00:02:15] Teddy Smith: I didn't know that people got professional photos for their dating profile. I have to admit. 

[00:02:20] John DeMato: Oh, lemme tell you something. It's a thing and it sucks, but it's, it is definitely something that I did for about two years on and off. Yeah. 

[00:02:31] Teddy Smith: Nice. I wouldn't tell ask who you did if you did any famous people, but uh, no.

[00:02:38] John DeMato: See that's the thing. Famous people don't need it because they have paparazzi photos and they have Raya. They're good to go. As far as who I was working with, yeah, it was a little different story. 

[00:02:49] Teddy Smith: So the reason we wanted to talk today was because you've, a part of your business is called the book Boudoir and it's.

[00:02:56] Teddy Smith: Essentially very, very professional photos of your book, but for use for things like marketing, that sort of thing. So gimme a bit of background into that business and exactly why you do that business. 

[00:03:09] John DeMato: Well, I. The business was born out of a conversation with a client who saw photos that I took of another client's books.

[00:03:17] John DeMato: It was a stack of books during her branding session that I photographed, and I did like a design pattern with like 12 or 13 of them. He saw that reached out to me in an email and asked, you know, do you photograph books on their own? And at first, I thought to myself, why, why would I want to do that?

[00:03:35] John DeMato: You know, I, I don't understand the need for it. And, but we got on a phone call, started chatting about it, and he talked about how it could be interesting to be able to include, independent photos for authors specifically for those looking to launch their book, and how that those assets could be something more dynamic than just simply having a two dimensional.

[00:03:59] John DeMato: Image of the cover, and as I was thinking about it with him and brainstorming back and forth, I threw out the question, well, what about the inside of the book? I mean, I. That's the whole meat and potatoes of the book in the first place. Maybe we could figure out a way to make that those pages shine in some way, shape or form.

[00:04:19] John DeMato: And from that conversation, that's how Book Boudoir was born. And funny enough, the name book Boudoir came from yet another. Expert colleague of mine who saw some of the samples that I was creating, and he's like, wow, those are sexy. Yeah, those are sexy. You gotta call it something cool. And next thing you know the name book, boudoir Stuck.

[00:04:43] John DeMato: But essentially the point of that service is to create an opportunity for authors, not just who are launching their book, but also to. Revive an old title. Maybe it's on the back list, but they want to try to revive sales, or it's just an expert that wants to create an added layer of visual storytelling to what they're already putting out there.

[00:05:05] John DeMato: In addition to, yeah, I write a book, but I'm also a coach and I'm also a consultant, and I also speak on stages, so the photos of the. Cover and the spine are great for marketing, especially the way I photograph it, where you leave a lot of negative space that creates opportunities for these authors, design teams to be able to put in branding elements and text elements and CTAs and all of those things to be able to draw attention to the cover, to the title, to be able to drive sales during a launch.

[00:05:37] John DeMato: But on the back end of it, it creates an added layer of content that looks. Uniquely compelling and interesting because I'm photographing, you know, poll quotes and section headers, unique design elements, illustrations, back cover images, recommendations, all of those different things because they all can servee a unique purpose to be able to tell their story visually and to be able to catch the eye of someone who they can potentially help through their expertise.

[00:06:07] Teddy Smith: Yeah, absolutely. I mean. The word you just used just then, sexy is a really good way of describing them. 'cause you look at some of the pictures on your website, some of the examples that you've used, they look like adverts from GQ and or for, or something like that. You know, they look like they, they basically make the books look really viable, which I guess that is the whole point of what you do.

[00:06:29] John DeMato: It is. I mean, on the aesthetic level, yes, but there is a hefty amount of strategy that goes into those sexy images because at the end of the day, when you think about photos of a book, they parallel those of the photos of the person, which is, yes, the photos need to look good because if you do not feel like they're flattering you, you're never gonna use them.

[00:06:53] John DeMato: But at the same time, there needs to be a level of value in what is being shown in that image. So if I'm photographing a poll quote, it needs to be in focus and shot in a certain way so you can actually absorb what that content is and then be able to read on in the caption that that follows up on it and compliments it and expands upon that thought.

[00:07:17] John DeMato: So there needs to be a value piece as well when thinking about these. But yes, I, I, I do enjoy making the books look good. 

[00:07:28] Teddy Smith: So with these photos, like one, the first thing that I thought just because of my background working mostly with Amazon Books sellers, is, is that it could be a great use for the a plus content on people's listings.

[00:07:40] Teddy Smith: So to show people that inside of the books, because I always think. Especially some of these really nicely produced books. You've got charts or you've got images, or you've got something that's engaging inside the book. That's not just words. You've really got to be showing people that content. 

[00:07:53] John DeMato: Yeah. And the a plus material gives the author a lot of play space with which to work, because you not only just gonna use the images, but then you can create custom copy.

[00:08:05] John DeMato: You can add in, not just book. Boudoir photos, but you can also add in branding photos, you can add in icons. If you have custom illustrations within the book, that can be leveraged as well. I mean, there's a wealth of opportunities with the a plus space on every author's page, and I've seen quite a few interesting examples of it.

[00:08:28] John DeMato: W with or without the books, um, there's a lot of play, but when you incorporate the books images. That's when it starts to get even more compelling and interesting. 

[00:08:38] Teddy Smith: Yeah. Are there any particular things that you use for different types of books? So for example, for a nonfiction book versus a fiction book, are there any particular ways that you'd photograph photograph it differently between those two?

[00:08:51] Teddy Smith: I. 

[00:08:52] John DeMato: Regardless of whatever book that's in front of me, the approach is always dictated by the layout. It's dictated by the colors. It's dictated by the texture of the cover, whether it's a hard cover or a soft cover, if it's matter reflective. If it's a hard cover and it has a jacket, when the jacket is taken off, is there some extra flare or design?

[00:09:15] John DeMato: Is the, is the title embossed? Is there a recess of it? All of those are determining factors when thinking, when I'm thinking about how to photograph these books. Because while a book is a book, they're not made the same. They all have their own unique qualities, just like the people who wrote them. So as a result, it's important for me.

[00:09:38] John DeMato: To understand what I'm walking into before I photograph them so I can have a strategy in place. And that's why I always have strategic conversations with authors about their books before I approach photographing it so that I understand what their goal, what the book is, first of all, what, what kind of book am I getting?

[00:10:00] John DeMato: What are the design elements? All of those different things. But then also. What are the quotes that are important? What are the section headers that would be important to photograph? Chapter titles, whatever the case may be, whatever is pressing for them that is paramount to have in that portfolio. I make sure that that is in their portfolio in addition to a wealth of other opportunities for them to leverage those images.

[00:10:25] Teddy Smith: Yeah, of course. Now with your book I, with, with the photos, sorry, I know you've got quite a few client success stories. Could we, let's go through a couple of examples where taking the photos has really helped to elevate either a launch or the marketing of those books 

[00:10:41] John DeMato: in general. my clients are

[00:10:44] John DeMato: excited to have these images because in many cases they didn't even know this was a thing until they realized it was a thing. Yeah. So, for a lot of my clients, one of the biggest things that I hear in terms of positive feedback is these photos are not just great for the book launch, which they leverage them, you know?

[00:11:10] John DeMato: All over the place in terms of their online content and as well as their website page for their, that's, you know, dedicated to their book. But one of the other interesting things I've found in terms of, how they successfully leveraged these photos is that some of them actually use it. When they're keynote speakers, they use it for their slides, for their presentations they're using it for, and not just online content.

[00:11:34] John DeMato: I mean the actual presentation, the slides are there. So, and they've also used it for other types of marketing assets for PDFs that they hand out to people. So in terms of finding the flexibility. That's really where the success lies within that creative latitude that they are afforded when they have this pile of images of the cover, the spine as well as the inside pages.

[00:11:59] Teddy Smith: Yeah. Yeah. I, I can think of so many uses off the top of my head where these would go and yeah, I would really encourage people to go and have a look at their website. 'cause you, you'll see the difference between a photo, like the ones you take and the. The normal, just a plus content that you get off something like Fiverr or, or something like that, which is obviously a much lower quality than what you've got now with your other side of your business.

[00:12:23] Teddy Smith: You talk a lot about storytelling for consultants and trainers and serving speakers, and especially authors as well. Do you think that any of those storytelling elements that you have in that side of the coaching business has. Translated into taking the photos as you try and get those storytelling elements into the photos themselves.

[00:12:43] John DeMato: Oh, 100%. Because there, there's a motto that I have with regards to the way that I handle anything I. photographically. The moment that that camera comes out of the bag, the way I shoot one thing is the way I shoot everything. And by that I mean the goal of what I'm trying to capture is a wealth of visual variety.

[00:13:06] John DeMato: See, one of the biggest problems that. Experts have with regards to their visual assets, regardless if it's a book or if it's the space in which they work or if it's photos of themselves, is that while the photos that they do leverage online, they, they may look great. The problem is they don't have enough, and by that I mean if you wanna position yourself as the go-to authority in your space, whatever space of expertise that may be one of the ways to do that is by creating this perception of authority, by sharing a wealth of high quality, compelling images that not only showcase how you solve people's problems.

[00:13:49] John DeMato: But also who you are as a human being. Because regardless if you speak on stages, write books, train in a, in a, in a workshop environment, run three day masterminds, whatever the case may be, you are in the business of building relationships, and one of the ways to help build that relationship is by illustrating a full broad spectrum of who you are.

[00:14:12] John DeMato: Who you serve, the problems you solve and and how you solve those problems. And if you're able to do that consistently and with intention, with a strategic mindset, you are going to be able to create an online presence that is going to attract those that will resonate with you as an expert. In solving their problem and you, the human being that they can stomach being in the same room with because they feel like your personality is in line with theirs.

[00:14:45] Teddy Smith: Yeah, and obviously 'cause you're using the same strategy that you use for your speaking, like with the books I thought that was quite an interesting quote that you had from your website. That was, you like, by working with you, for example, you'd learn how to build a powerful visual strategy that transforms your photos into genuine assets, that resonates with your audience, builds trust, drives engagement.

[00:15:05] Teddy Smith: So I thought that was a really interesting thing to talk about because. A lot of people just see photos as a way of, you know, showing people what they look like. But could you gimme some examples of how you could use those photos to, build that trust and drive engagement and to build that powerful visual strategy that you're talking about?

[00:15:24] John DeMato: Well. The whole point of what visual storytelling is, is to prove that what you say is true based on how you show up in your photos. So if you're telling people that you are a $30,000 keynote speaker, what, where are the photos that prove that? If you say that you're a bestselling author. Where are the photos that prove that if you're a trainer, a consultant, fill in the blank.

[00:15:53] John DeMato: Where are the photos that prove that? Step one is being able to back up every single word that comes out of your mouth online with visuals and video as well. But in this case, we're talking about images that. Prove what you say is true. So that is the first fundamental step to creating a genuine relationship where these people see you as a credible leader that can be trusted to deliver on your promise.

[00:16:25] Teddy Smith: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I can. I can see just by looking at really good photos compared to amateur ones, how it makes you just look much more professional, really clearly. So it gives an idea. Can I, 

[00:16:36] John DeMato: sorry, go on. Teddy, can I ask you a question about that? Actually, you bring up a very important point. When you look at someone who simply posts smartphone photos, which is not casting an aspersion, because smartphone photos do play a role in visual storytelling for every single person.

[00:16:53] John DeMato: But when you look at someone who only posts that on their website, on their social everywhere, versus someone who has clearly invested in themselves and gotten a series of high quality professional compelling. Portraits and or book photos and event photos, what's the difference in your mind and and how do you perceive those two different people?

[00:17:16] Teddy Smith: Yeah, I mean, you're automatically thinking someone who's, as you mentioned, invested in themselves and started thinking about that, what their brand's going to look like and how everything links together and how it's creating that story that you were talking about is much more. Uh, invested in their audience as well.

[00:17:33] Teddy Smith: You know, if you are, if you are spending that time making sure that you are coming across well, that shows that you are a real serious person, that is gonna be taken, taken seriously, and also provide a great service. Oh yeah. 

[00:17:46] John DeMato: That's okay. Thank you for the clarification. 

[00:17:51] Teddy Smith: And I suppose that is exactly the same with the books as well.

[00:17:53] Teddy Smith: So if we are thinking about the books, if you've got great photos of the books, especially if you're going to be doing marketing, you know, not just on Amazon but outside, that's gonna make quite a big difference. I. 

[00:18:02] John DeMato: It is Now, listen, at the end of the day though, when it comes to, let's say you're an emerging author.

[00:18:08] John DeMato: Let's say you just quit a job and you wrote a book and you're starting, you're just starting out. There is nothing wrong with simply using smartphone photos and using two dimensional graphics of the cover because that is what is available to you. However, there, there is. There is a level of importance in understanding that there are levels to, to this whole thing.

[00:18:32] John DeMato: Yeah. When it comes to attracting a broader audience, to attracting a higher quality level of audience, to attracting the right types of people for you, and that as you go along in your journey, it's essential that you start to pay more attention to investing in how you are presenting yourself. To the outside world and specifically to those that you wanna serve.

[00:18:54] Teddy Smith: Yeah. For people that are just asking out and maybe don't have budget to work with a professional photographer straight away. Are there any interesting shots that you think someone could do at home that maybe could be the first step to elevating their game for their books? 

[00:19:09] John DeMato: Well. Yes. I mean, at the end of the day, what would be very important would be to share images of you, the human being, and you can take those with your smartphone.

[00:19:20] John DeMato: But I don't mean just take a selfie, hang it over the top of your head, like as if it's being photographed from a helicopter shooting down it. It's, it's a more intentional and strategic approach. In the same way that you would approach a professional session, you need to have that same level of intent behind.

[00:19:38] John DeMato: Taking photos yourself. So instead of having the camera in your hand, put it on a stand. Use the timer. Use the, the, the grid to be able to. Compose an image in a way that is flattering to you and that it doesn't look like you're chopping your head off or you're chopping your chin off and it looks weird, like, don't do that.

[00:19:58] John DeMato: I would say look at some YouTube videos that kind of give you the basics of how to leverage a smartphone camera. And I'm talking not high level stuff where you're doing all kinds of effects and crazy things. You don't need to do that. You simply need to understand what the rule of thirds are, how to, how to accurately compose something, how to leverage the available light that is in the room.

[00:20:19] John DeMato: And the good news with a phone is it's simply a couple of taps on the screen. It's not really that complicated compared to using a. $7,000 professional camera environment. But what it does do is it gives you the opportunity to be able to capture headshots of yourself, wider portraits, maybe sitting somewhere in your office, how to, how to shoot handheld of a, when you're not shooting yourself and you wanna photograph the book, for example, how to, how to compose the book with the, with the camera in your hand, with the, with the phone in your hand, and, and doing all of those things and.

[00:20:56] John DeMato: I would say another option could be if you have poll quotes that you really like, while it is far more complicated to shoot a, a, a high level, well composed image with a smartphone of a pole quote, what you could do is grab a highlighter, highlight it, get the camera as close as you can, tap it so it's in focus and photograph it.

[00:21:18] John DeMato: And you could still get away with that kind of imagery for the beginning. Mm-hmm. At least to start. And if you just do those simple things and you have that intent behind it, it's okay to start that way. 

[00:21:32] Teddy Smith: Yeah. Brilliant. Now working with you, what's that process look like? Is there a difference between working with a nonfiction or a fiction designer?

[00:21:41] Teddy Smith: Do people need to come in person, or is it a case of just sending you the book and seeing what happens? 

[00:21:46] John DeMato: Generally speaking, the way that, for a book, boudoir session, a client will reach out to me, say that they have a launch coming. They have their books and they want to talk about what it would look like.

[00:21:59] John DeMato: We get on a strategy call, I. First of all, we define how many books they'll be sending me, how many copies of the title because I have different levels of service that I can photograph. One cover, I can photograph up to five covers or up to 10 covers. And the reason why that variety exists is because the more books I have, the more opportunity.

[00:22:24] John DeMato: There is to create interesting and compelling compositions by leveraging the title, the, the spine shots, and give them a wealth of options visually for them to leverage in different places across their entire online presence for the launch. And then, and then the next level is figuring out, as I had mentioned earlier, are there any particular quotes or illustrations or custom graphics or.

[00:22:52] John DeMato: Any, anything, section headers, whatever the case may be that they definitely want photographed that goes at the top of the list. And then everything else, I am going through the book and finding eye-catching section headers and poll quotes that I know. Can be leveraged for them in different ways. Specifically for online content.

[00:23:17] John DeMato: I mean obviously all of it's important. It's in the book. If it wasn't important, it wouldn't be in the book. So that clearly, that level is already taken care of. But it's about thinking about finding those catchy phrases and interesting quotes that definitely catch reader's eyes. And those I will photograph on my own and then hand that in as part of the portfolio.

[00:23:39] Teddy Smith: Great. Well thanks so much for coming on. I mean, it's been fascinating to hear about photographing books 'cause you never think it's going to take as much effort as it does. But you know, you can just see then the final quality of the outputs, what a difference it makes, having these professional photos taken.

[00:23:53] Teddy Smith: So yeah, thanks for explaining your process. 

[00:23:56] John DeMato: Absolutely. It was my pleasure. 

[00:23:58] Teddy Smith: So if people wanna get in touch with you, where's the best place for 'em to do that? 

[00:24:02] John DeMato: The easiest place to be would be my website, john dato.com. And if you go on there I have all the links to my social profiles for LinkedIn and Instagram and Facebook.

[00:24:14] John DeMato: And for those who are interested in learning a little bit more about visual storytelling, the how, what, and why behind it. I have a blog that I put out every three times a week, so you could sign up for that on my website as well. I. And that's pretty much where you should go. 

[00:24:32] Teddy Smith: Yeah. Great. We'll put links to all that stuff in the show notes, but thanks very much for joining me today and we'll speak again soon.

[00:24:38] John DeMato: Yeah, the pleasure was all on this side of the camera, my friend. Speak 

[00:24:42] Teddy Smith: soon. Thank you so much for tuning into the Publishing performance podcast. I really hope you found today's episode inspiring. I love chatting to authors, writers, and people in the publishing world. Now, just before we wrap up, let me tell you about.

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