The Publishing Performance Show

Barbara Boyd - The Book Coach Approach: Finding Your Idea, Audience, and Objective

• Teddy Smith • Episode 74

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Barbara Boyd is a book coach and author who has guided over 100 authors through the publishing process. With a specialty in nonfiction writing, Barbara helps experts transform their knowledge into well-structured, reader-focused books. As a certified book coach through Author Accelerator, she uses proven frameworks like the Blueprint for a Non-Fiction Book to help authors clarify their ideas, identify their target audience, and achieve their publishing objectives.

In this episode:

  • The Venn diagram concept for books (idea, audience, objectives)
  • Identifying and narrowing your target audience
  • Translating complex expertise into reader-friendly content
  • Storytelling techniques for nonfiction
  • Creating logical reader journeys
  • Value of detailed outlines before writing
  • Simplifying complex ideas through examples
  • Why sharing knowledge attracts rather than repels clients
  • Book writing timeline expectations
  • Book coaching as editorial and emotional support
  • Traditional versus self-publishing approaches


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[00:00:00] Teddy Smith: Hi everyone and welcome to the Publishing Informant Show. Today I'm really happy to be joined by Barbara Boyd who is an author and she's also been the book coach to over 100 authors so thank you for joining us Barbara. 

[00:00:16] Barbara Boyd: Thank you, Teddy. It's nice to be here. 

[00:00:19] Teddy Smith: No, thank you. Well, let's just jump straight into it and talk about one of the concepts that you've talked about on your website.

[00:00:24] Teddy Smith: So you have this concept of the Venn diagram of books concepts. So could you just explain a little bit how, what those Venn diagrams are and how they all intersect with each other? 

[00:00:35] Barbara Boyd: Sure. So when you're writing nonfiction, because we'll be talking about nonfiction today, that's my specialty. It's not just about thinking about the idea of the book, but also who you want to reach, so the audience, and the goals or objectives that you have for that book.

[00:00:54] Barbara Boyd: And most people writing nonfiction are looking to do things like broaden their audience, be seen as an industry expert codify a framework that they've developed. So thinking about all three of those pieces sort of Make sure that the book is focused and The idea is honed to reach the audience that they want to reach.

[00:01:23] Barbara Boyd: So oftentimes, although I think it's becoming less because people are more familiar with this idea that you can't market or have an audience that is everyone. And even if you say something like, well, my audience is women, like there's a lot of women in the world, like that's still too big. One, narrowing your audience, like who's going to be best served by your message.

[00:01:50] Barbara Boyd: So if you have this really broad, unspecific audience, even if your idea and your goals are, are solid, you probably won't be able to reach your goals if your audience is not defined. Likewise, you could have a really well defined audience, but your idea is too broad. And there too, like, we need specificity.

[00:02:17] Barbara Boyd: And so, and, and also the same thing goes for objectives. Like, I have had conversations with people, I remember one in particular was like an accountant writing about some sort of finance thing. And one of the objectives was, I want to be on Oprah. Yeah. It was like. You're writing for other accountants. Are they watching Oprah at, you know, three or four in the afternoon?

[00:02:43] Barbara Boyd: Are they working? Like, is that really a valid objective? And, you know, how does that tie in to who you're trying to reach and, and your idea? So, those three things, when they work together, really help an author focus and have clarity about the book. I think in any kind of writing, whether it's fiction or memoir, but particularly in nonfiction, having a plan ahead of time.

[00:03:15] Barbara Boyd: saves time to write the book and to weed out the things that don't need to be in that particular book and also help think about how you're going to market that book and also give you measurements for whether or not that book has been successful or whether you should try some other things to get it into the hands of the people that you're trying to reach.

[00:03:40] Barbara Boyd: So Starting there with, with those three points and making sure that they're clear, even before you start writing the book, can very much set up an author to then work on the book with more clarity and, and consistency. 

[00:03:59] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. Because there's three circles in the Venn diagram. It's the idea, the audience and the objective.

[00:04:06] Teddy Smith: Now, most writers, nonfiction writers, especially, they've got this kind of idea. I think that's kind of the bit where they start, you know, people say, Oh, I want to teach about this. And it's the audience and the objectives maybe is the bit where they haven't thought about that quite as much. So have you got any tips for people who are trying to work out exactly who their audience would be and how to work out those objectives as well?

[00:04:27] Barbara Boyd: I think with, for the audience, you know, thinking about. An ideal client is, you know, for anyone who's in business, they're have probably gone through some sort of exercise of thinking about the ideal client avatar. So same sort of thing for who is the ideal reader? Who do you? See, if you were to sit down and talk about your book and share those ideas, who's the ideal person sitting across the table from you?

[00:04:56] Barbara Boyd: And starting there and really identifying what, what are the demographics and the psychographics of that person. What keeps that person up at night? What problem are you solving for them? And if you think about the problem that you're solving, then you can think about who are the people who have that problem.

[00:05:17] Barbara Boyd: So that's where the, the, the idea and the audience dovetail. Right. Okay. That's really interesting because I think it's important to find that target audience for your book, because a lot of people will say, Oh, like you just mentioned, I want to write an accounting book, but. If you just write a general accounting book, maybe that's going to be very competitive and you're going to be competing with books by like zero or, you know, QuickBooks or some of these really big brands.

[00:05:45] Teddy Smith: But if you're talking maybe more specifically accounting for e commerce owners, for example, then you're really are defining that target audience and it makes it a much more understandable book. 

[00:05:55] Barbara Boyd: And a much more necessary book, like how often, you know, a couple of things here, one, most people, when they're looking to get information about a topic, they don't buy just one book.

[00:06:07] Barbara Boyd: So the purple for the people with working on e commerce may very well pick up a book about QuickBooks or about zero because that's the platform they're using. But there are also those questions that an accountant who specialize in that kind of client can answer, you know, questions that The, the person running the e commerce business may not even know that they should be asking.

[00:06:35] Barbara Boyd: Whereas an expert can say, you need to make sure you think about this if you're in this kind of business. So that also helps define the content of the book when you're thinking about your reader, you know, what exactly do those. types of people need to know because, you know, people come with a wealth of knowledge.

[00:06:58] Barbara Boyd: They don't, you don't want to, like, give them a fire hose of information in your book. Maybe you've got two or three or ten books to write. 

[00:07:07] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. And I think that idea of making it for the right target audience is really important because as an expert, some of the concepts you might be talking about might be quite complex.

[00:07:17] Teddy Smith: They might be quite challenging for different people. So do you have any idea, advice for experts who may be trying to translate their knowledge into a specific field by maybe simplifying some of those complex ideas? Hmm. 

[00:07:30] Barbara Boyd: I have a client who really struggled with that. She's in the wellness. Field, but has a very scientific background.

[00:07:39] Barbara Boyd: She's very enthusiastic about all the inner workings of the body and what's going on with at the cellular level. And she would just write pages and pages and pages. And it's like, I like this. I could kind of geek out on this, but I don't, you know, this, when you describe your reader to me, I don't think those are the people, this is what they're looking for.

[00:08:03] Barbara Boyd: And she was able to step back and think about how she speaks to people who are her clients, because she does a lot of one on one and group work. So she has opportunity to talk about these things. And I think when she sat down to write, it was just like this huge brain dump. All this information is knowledge that I want to share.

[00:08:22] Barbara Boyd: And so the exercise going back in a little bit to that idea of you've got that person across the table from you. What do they need to know? What level do they need to know? So for anyone who has clients or is perhaps a mentor thinking about how would you speak to that person? What do they need to know at a certain point in their life?

[00:08:51] Barbara Boyd: In their journey with your information, because you also, of course, take with the book, you take the reader on a journey. So sometimes it's not about giving too much information, but when in the book do you give that information? And sometimes it is about having multiple books. But again, keeping that reader in mind, what, what do they need to know?

[00:09:17] Barbara Boyd: Where are they in their journey of, of, you know, why do they need your book right now? And what do they need to know right now? 

[00:09:27] Teddy Smith: Yeah. Do you ever work with people to simplify those concepts by using any techniques such as storytelling or by bringing a simple concepts in something like an acronym or something like that so that it makes that nonfiction book a bit more easy to understand for a regular person?

[00:09:44] Barbara Boyd: Absolutely. I mean, storytelling is essential to nonfiction today. I think even in academic books, there are still case studies and examples and, you know, recent studies about how the brain works show that as humans, we learn through story. We remember better through story. So it's essential to use those stories.

[00:10:07] Barbara Boyd: Bye. Bye. Examples and anecdotes in a nonfiction book that it, it's not just factual or just a, formula, if you will, that, you know, you can certainly talk about those things and you should, but then show them in action, show how Someone has used them and, you know, whether that's a client, whether, you know, if you're in a field that has patients, whether that's a patient and there are many ways, of course, to protect someone's privacy, but creating those examples is is critical.

[00:10:45] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. I mean, whenever you read nonfiction books, I always find it helps to have those stories to bring. Context to the things they're talking about. I think sometimes books can go too far the other way where they have, you know, maybe a concept that could be written into a short blog article, but it's spread out over a whole book and it's got 150 pages or something like that.

[00:11:04] Teddy Smith: Some of the more famous people are a bit guilty of that, I think, but it really does. Make quite a big difference in bringing those concepts to life. I think that's from one speaking to you before. I think that's one of the main benefits you can get from working with a book coach is you can get some of those insights.

[00:11:19] Teddy Smith: So why don't you tell us a bit about what it would be like working with you, to support that process. 

[00:11:26] Barbara Boyd: I typically, so let's talk about someone who has an idea, but hasn't begun writing their book. Because I do know that people, some people have started writing and they're struggling. Some people have a completed manuscript and those are different different circumstances.

[00:11:41] Barbara Boyd: But someone who has an idea, wants to, say, build their audience and, and get their message out into the world. Maybe they have a framework for for whatever their field is that solves a problem that a lot of people have. So I begin with a tool that I learned from Jenny Nash of Author Accelerator. I'm a certified book coach through Author Accelerator, and it's called Blueprint for a nonfiction book.

[00:12:08] Barbara Boyd: And there are questions that take the author through The, that thought process that is, that leads to the answers that would apply to the Venn diagram. Things like, why are you writing your book? Who are you writing your book for? What how do you think you will market this book? What's your, like, nightmare and dream book review?

[00:12:33] Barbara Boyd: You know, what does the jacket copy look like? Why are you the best person to write this book? You know, things that get them thinking. About where they see their book in the world. So also things about comp titles and then of course, creating an outline that puts together the information that they want to share.

[00:12:56] Barbara Boyd: And the outline is iterative. Most people don't get it on the first try. So, um, you're thinking about, you know, what are those top 10 or 12? points that you need to cover and, and how does One topic lead to the next. And I think this is where a book coach can be really helpful. Aside from walking someone through those questions about, you know, why, when, how is this all going to happen and for whom?

[00:13:29] Barbara Boyd: But also thinking about the structure. Like, what, what's the best way to communicate this? You know, you talked about an acronym. I worked with a woman once who came to me with a finished manuscript. She had an acronym in the final chapter for her whole framework. And it was like, wait a minute, like, and I don't remember what the acronym was, but I think it had seven letters.

[00:13:54] Barbara Boyd: And I was like, Well, like each of these should be a chapter, like this is your book structure. I'm like, I'm really sorry, we just need to start all over like this, you know, this acronym is, is fantastic and easy to understand everything. Yes. And so 

[00:14:10] Teddy Smith: by the way, you can use this seven step process to work all this out.

[00:14:14] Barbara Boyd: But you know, that's, that's where. the earlier conversations help. Someone who is unfamiliar with your topic help because, you know, she was so familiar with her framework, it didn't even occur to her that that could be the way to present. It in a book and for me being unfamiliar with it, as soon as I saw it, I was like, Oh, now it all makes sense.

[00:14:43] Barbara Boyd: Let's start there. And so a book coach can be a second set of eyes, a publishing expert, because most of the people that I work with anyway are not experts in publishing. They have no idea how publishing works, or they have some vague ideas from things that they see on social media. and a book coach is also the emotional support, you know, you know, this writing a book is hard.

[00:15:11] Barbara Boyd: It's really hard, even when you are an expert and you have a lot of information to share and maybe you even love writing, but when you sit down to write a book, it is not an easy task to write a book well, and we get a little upset with those, write your book in 30 days. Okay. You could write your book in 30 days, but what's the quality of that book and what else are you doing in your life at that point?

[00:15:38] Barbara Boyd: So I, you know, book coach. It's somewhere between, you know, therapist and editor and, you know, sometimes I wear both of those hats and, that's, that answer your question. 

[00:15:52] Teddy Smith: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, the outline I think is quite important because it brings in that concept we were talking about before, you know, that storytelling that flow.

[00:16:02] Teddy Smith: If someone's coming to you with maybe a book idea, how. Would you help them to write the outline? Do you have any ways that you help people to create an outline which would make it more straightforward? So first off, thinking about what are those, those topics that need to be in the book that typically become chapters.

[00:16:25] Barbara Boyd: And so there's the, thinking about it in a flow. That leads the reader from where they are today to where you want them to be when they finish their book, when they finish reading your book. So, it's kind of schematic. There's the topic of the, the thesis, if you will, of each chapter, and then the, the point that you're, You know, how you're going to make that point, so perhaps listing out some of the anecdotes, some of the key elements of that thesis, and then how that chapter leads to the next chapter, because you want to make sure that you're not giving it.

[00:17:12] Barbara Boyd: Information in Chapter 7 that really needed to be in Chapter 1. So, you know, and again, knowing who your reader is, how much do they know? You don't want to If you are, say, we're going back to our accounting example. If you are speaking and writing to business owners who don't necessarily have a background in accounting, the content and tone of the book is going to be different than if you were writing for other accountants.

[00:17:48] Barbara Boyd: You know, maybe junior accountants, but still people who are in the field. And even more so will change if you're writing for peers. Maybe you've got a framework that you want people who are at the same level of you, but you want them to use your framework instead of someone else's. So the, all of that is reflected in the outline because of that will change the topics that you cover, the anecdotes that you use, the language and tone that you use.

[00:18:19] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. And I'm guessing a lot of people who come to you, they are people who are, as we mentioned, for experts in the field. Now, they're not necessarily authors. A nonfiction book, and we've seen this happen lots and lots of times, it's a great thing to do as someone who is an expert because it firstly, it boosts your reputation in the industry.

[00:18:38] Teddy Smith: You know, you might just be using it even if it's not to generate sales. By itself. It's more to build reputation and to generate sales. Now someone came to you who was an expert, but they hadn't really got that idea of where they wanted their books to be taken. How would you help them to brainstorm and to pull that idea out of their own knowledge for what the book would be?

[00:19:02] Barbara Boyd: Okay. So if I understand your question correctly, what happens there again, going back to the reader. Who are they trying to reach and if they were to coach that person or teach them, what, what would you want them to know? What happens is sometimes is that authors, they have so, and experts, they have so much knowledge, they, as you say, they're not quite sure where to begin.

[00:19:34] Barbara Boyd: So, it's a conversation, you know, who do you want to reach? What problem are you solving for that person? And which part of your, which, which sector or segment of your knowledge solves that problem? And starting there to sort of narrow the, the information that will be shared in the book. and one exercise I've used sometimes is to, when people can't decide, they're like, I could write about this, I could write about that, I could write about that other thing.

[00:20:06] Barbara Boyd: Make a list of all the different books that you might want to write. And then, like, prioritize which one comes first. In the PDF that goes with the Zen diagram, I talk about it. He is a really simple example about a dog trainer and, and, you know, if you are writing a book about dog training for people who have never owned a dog, that's going to have, that's a certain part of your knowledge that you're going to share.

[00:20:36] Barbara Boyd: If you are teaching people how to be a dog trainer, that's a different level and a different segment of your knowledge. And So the, it's, it's an ongoing conversation and it really depends from client to client because some clients know they, they just, they're like, this is what I need to, these are the people I need to reach.

[00:21:01] Barbara Boyd: This is the message that I need to share with them and I'm just not sure how to structure this book and, and I need accountability to get it written and, and so forth. But when it's, there's just a lot of knowledge to choose from. It does come back to the audience and also the objectives. What do you hope this book will do for you?

[00:21:24] Barbara Boyd: Because as you say, most nonfiction books, they're not, they're not moneymakers. It's not about book sales per se. Book sales are great. But it's it is very much about building a reputation. It's about having something to hand out to clients, something to distribute in the back of the room when you're making speeches, something to almost work as a business card if you want to present yourself as.

[00:21:55] Barbara Boyd: A speaker on a podcast or at a conference or, you know, other, other opportunities for, for networking. 

[00:22:05] Teddy Smith: Yeah, yeah. That's some great advice. Um, I think, you know, if you can brainstorm out those ideas and think about exactly what you just said, who is it you're trying to target? And what do you want them to learn?

[00:22:16] Teddy Smith: I think you can quite quickly pull out. One or even multiple book ideas that you can then that you can create, and it could really create that sort of process of getting those books made as a, as a series almost

[00:22:30] Teddy Smith: now for fit writers who are maybe just starting out and they haven't written a book before. One of the things they might need to understand is the. Reader's journey. So obviously you've the reader needs to get from the beginning to end and you want to make sure you're keeping them on track. Now, do you have any tips for helping writers to get that flow within their book 

[00:22:52] Barbara Boyd: that goes back to the outline of looking at how one chapter goes to the next?

[00:22:57] Barbara Boyd: So what? Breaking down the big idea into smaller supporting ideas. And then for each of those ideas, how does one go to lead to the next? Where do You know, meeting your readers where they are in the beginning. So, understanding this is, this is their level of knowledge. And then, what's the next thing they need to know?

[00:23:24] Barbara Boyd: What's the next thing they need to know? Building blocks or, you know, a foundation. And then, constructing, you know, the house. And then, putting the furniture in there. Any number of metaphors we could use for that. And, they'd, I think, when Again, having someone external look at that and say, okay, but this doesn't make sense to me.

[00:23:51] Barbara Boyd: And that doesn't mean it's wrong, you know, that may be the correct order, but having to explain it, having an expert author have to justify the choices that he or she has made, part of the process.

[00:24:13] Teddy Smith: In terms of that, in terms of that flow and what you were just talking about with nonfiction books, how do you help people to find actionable takeaways and other things like that that can help keep the reader both engaged, but also like going through the book in that logical fashion? 

[00:24:32] Barbara Boyd: So authors need and experts need to be generous with their knowledge.

[00:24:39] Barbara Boyd: It's it, especially I've had, I've had clients who are like, Oh, I'm afraid, you know, that no one will hire me if I write everything in the book. And that's just so not the case. Um, most of us are lazy. We'll read the book, but it's easier to hire someone to show us how to do something, to do it for us, but reading the book.

[00:25:01] Barbara Boyd: Let's a client know. Oh, yes, this person knows what they're talking about I like their sense of humor that comes across in the anecdotes that they can't tell in the story in the in the book So, you know, it's it's not about I like people to be generous with the knowledge they have to share and I know that I don't know anything about AI, but people may say, Oh, but if I put it out, there's something, you know, AI is going to steal it.

[00:25:36] Barbara Boyd: And then it's going to be spread about. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but, um, the, from a reader standpoint, keeping them engaged, being generous, staying on point. Combining knowledge and storytelling, they're all the nuances that will keep the reader turning the page, you know, even in much like in fiction, each sentence leads needs to lead to the next sentence, because we have very short attention spans.

[00:26:12] Barbara Boyd: You could lose a reader. Pretty much at any moment in the book. And so it's, you know, good writing is, is critical. Yeah, I think that's a good point. What you said about being generous with your information, because I've had people come on this podcast even, and we've been talking about their book, and one of the things they know about, and they've said, They've kind of not wanted to tell as much during the podcast because they're worried that people won't go and then buy the book.

[00:26:42] Teddy Smith: And I think that is the wrong way to look about it. You've got to show people how much do you know so they can go and get your book. It's I think, I don't think you can share enough information. Like realistically, you can read as many accounting books as you like, but you're not going to become an accountant and start doing books.

[00:26:55] Teddy Smith: It's just not going to happen. So you've got to, you've got to give people as much help as you can within that book. I think that's a really, really great tip. So, finally, just for the last question. So, working with you, I know, obviously, You would help them to brainstorm, set objectives, keep them on the right track.

[00:27:14] Teddy Smith: Basically, as you mentioned, be a therapist, be their coach, be there along the way to hold their hands, show them exactly what they need to do. What's the sort of timelines we're looking at if I was going to, for someone to write a book using you as the book coach? How long would it be taking from, I've just got an idea and I want to get it published?

[00:27:34] Barbara Boyd: To have the finished manuscript, if you are, like, dedicated and working on it a little bit every day, or I've, I've said, say, like, four hours a week, think you could get it, you could have a finished manuscript within a year, going from idea to finished manuscript. And then, of course, you know, you're looking at, What kind, you know, what direction you want to go for publishing?

[00:27:58] Barbara Boyd: So if someone is looking to publish traditionally, for nonfiction, you don't need a finished manuscript. You need a good outline and a good table of contents and a good book proposal. And so that is a different course and If you, I have gotten people through a book proposal development in about four months, I mean, a book proposal is like, you know, an 80 page document.

[00:28:32] Barbara Boyd: And so it's there's a lot of work that goes into it and a lot of thought that goes into it, but getting to a point of being ready to pitch to agents or. Independent publishers. I mean, four months is short, but it can be done again. It depends how dedicated the author is. But I think in writing a book again, if you're spending putting the time in every week for a typical, you know, 50, 60, 70, 000 word.

[00:29:02] Barbara Boyd: Nonfiction book, I think in a year, I mean, if you do the math and break down, what does that, how many words a day does that work out to? It's doable. If you've done the work up front, like sometimes it may take a couple months to do the blueprint and the outline and get to the point where you're actually starting to write.

[00:29:23] Barbara Boyd: But when you've done that foundation work ahead of time, the writing actually is a lot easier. Revisions can be a lot easier if you've got that solid outline from the get go. Yeah. I mean, just think about like that, you know, just over a thousand words a week, you'd have your 60, 70, 000 word manuscript like done in a year.

[00:29:47] Teddy Smith: Definitely. And that doesn't, that really doesn't sound like that much. You know, you probably write over a thousand words of emails a day, so I think it's doable, isn't it? It is. You know, for people who've done the NaNoWriMo, the, the novel writing in November 

[00:30:03] Teddy Smith: thing. 

[00:30:03] Barbara Boyd: Yeah. Writing 

[00:30:06] Teddy Smith: a novel in a month. Yeah.

[00:30:07] Barbara Boyd: Yes. In 30 days. I think there, it's something, it works out to something like 1500 words a day. So if you're looking at doing that over the course of a week, but again, having that foundation, having a good outline to work from, because when you've got a good outline to work from. You can also pick and choose.

[00:30:27] Barbara Boyd: You don't have to write the book in order. You know, if you know, okay, this topic in Chapter 6 is going to be really easy for me to write, and I feel like I need a boost today, so I'm going to write that today. And, you know, I know that this more challenging piece I'm going to have to do on the weekend, or I'm going to have to check into a hotel in the middle of nowhere and and not have any distractions for a few days, because that's going to be really hard.

[00:30:58] Barbara Boyd: So the outline also helps you with time management and. And accountability. 

[00:31:06] Teddy Smith: Yeah, definitely. Well, there's been some great tips there. I've really enjoyed talking to you about that. I think, you know, there's lots of tips in there for people who are experts to really take their knowledge and go and get it down in a book so that they can start building their career and showing everyone exactly what they know.

[00:31:22] Teddy Smith: Thank you for joining me. If people wanna get in touch with you, what's the best way for 'em to do that? 

[00:31:25] Barbara Boyd: They can visit my website, which is barbara j boyd.com. They can also find me on LinkedIn. And those are two of the best ways, whether with a DM or, or I have a, a contact form on my website. I also have discovery calls.

[00:31:47] Barbara Boyd: There's a scheduling feature on my website. If someone is, has an idea that they're curious of whether or not they, they should work with a book coach, if they're interested in working with me. So that's another way to connect. 

[00:32:02] Teddy Smith: Brilliant. Well, it's been great chatting to you. I'll put the links to the website in the, in the show notes so people can click on those and get some really easily.

[00:32:09] Teddy Smith: So just finally, before we go, we've got one last question and that's one, what is one book you recommend that everyone should be reading? 

[00:32:15] Barbara Boyd: So I, you told me about this question ahead of time, which I appreciate. I'm going to offer a suggestion for people who are thinking about writing a nonfiction book.

[00:32:25] Barbara Boyd: There is a book called write a must read by AJ Harper, and it's part book, part workbook, the questions in there really help a writer think about who they're writing for, what content they want to include, why they're writing their book. I mean, it's, it's just an excellent, excellent guide to think about those questions and with the questions are, are broken down to kind of come up to an answer with an answer to the broader question.

[00:33:10] Barbara Boyd: So 

[00:33:11] Teddy Smith: great. That sounds like a really interesting way of like breaking down the book. I think I haven't heard that one, so I'm going to go and check it out because I speak to a lot of people who are writing nonfiction books. Yeah. Brilliant. 

[00:33:22] Barbara Boyd: Really excellent. Okay. 

[00:33:24] Teddy Smith: And by sharing the book, you're not doing yourself out of a job either.

[00:33:27] Teddy Smith: So I 

[00:33:29] Barbara Boyd: don't think so. I mean, you know, again, I, I feel like it'd be generous. Yeah. Be generous. Definitely. 

[00:33:36] Teddy Smith: Read that then go and get a book coach. Well, thank you so much, Barbara, for joining us. It's been really great conversation and we'll speak again soon. 

[00:33:45] Barbara Boyd: Yes. Thank you, Teddy. 

[00:33:47] Teddy Smith: Thank you so much for tuning into the publishing performance podcast.

[00:33:50] Teddy Smith: I really hope you found today's episode inspiring I love chatting to authors writers and people in the publishing world now just before we wrap up Let me tell you about publishing performance the number one platform for authors who wants to increase Amazon book sales But I'm not really sure where to start now.

[00:34:07] Teddy Smith: This show is all about helping you to sell more books And if you're looking to boost your publishing game and to maximize your book's potential on Amazon, then Publishing Performance is designed to help authors just like you to grow your readership and to reach a much wider audience. Now, I know that Amazon ads can be slightly complicated, which is why Publishing Performance is like having a personalized ad account manager to create your ad campaigns, to choose your best keywords, and to make adjustments in real time.

[00:34:35] Teddy Smith: Now, if you're investing in ads, you really want to make sure that your investment is being used effectively, and Publishing Performance does just that. It aims to make your budget go further, improve your organic rank, and target keywords more effectively. Just go to publishingperformance. com to get started with Amazon Ads for just 1.