The Publishing Performance Show

Jami Albright - The Business of Writing Romantic Comedy

• Teddy Smith • Episode 41

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Jami Albright is a born and raised Texas girl and the multiple award-winning author of the "Brides on the Run" and "Small-Town Royalty" series—both known for being sexy, swoony, and laugh-out-loud funny. Beginning her writing journey at 47, Jami brings her background in stand-up comedy and natural storyteller's voice to her romance novels. When she's not writing, she's a wife, mother, and actress/comedian who loves all things Outlander, puppies, and can be found watching her beloved Houston Texans on Sundays during football season, hoping they won't break her heart.

In this episode:

  • Journey from stand-up comedy to romance writing
  • Building and maintaining an engaged newsletter audience
  • The importance of maintaining authentic voice in romance comedy
  • Marketing strategies for self-published authors
  • The value of networking and writing communities
  • Insights into the editing process for genre fiction
  • Experience running a successful author podcast


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Book recommendations:


Connect with Jami Albright:


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Join our Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/publishingperformance/

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[00:00:00] Teddy: Romantic comedy is one of those niches that is really addictive. Once customers start reading the books and the books make them laugh, it makes them cry. It makes them really want to find out what happens to the characters next. And Jamie Albright is one of the best in the business at writing romantic comedy books.

[00:00:20] Teddy: So it's fascinating to speak to all about her marketing techniques, the importance of building a tribe and getting the right people around you. And obviously Jamie Albright is well embedded within the self publishing industry. She's got her own podcast and I had the chance to meet her in purpose, And it was amazing to meet her in person because she's exactly like she is on her podcast, very chatty, very bubbly, really fun to be around.

[00:00:41] Teddy: So this is a really interesting episode all about how you can market your romantic comedy books, how you can find that audience, how you can build your newsletter. What you do with that newsletter and much, much more. Hi everybody, and welcome to the Publishing Performance Show. I'm here with Jamie Albright, who's a romance comedy author from Texas.

[00:01:00] Teddy: And she's also a podcaster at the Wish I'd Known podcast, which is a podcast all about writing for authors. Thanks for joining us, Jamie. 

[00:01:06] Jami: Yeah, welcome. I'm so happy to be here. 

[00:01:10] Teddy: Thanks. So she's all the way from Texas today. We've had quite a few Texans on the, on this actually. So how awesome are you?

[00:01:16] Teddy: So yeah, so tell us a bit about your journey as a writer. 

[00:01:20] Jami: Well, I did not start writing, in fact, did not write a word until I was around 47, and it was my reading buddy's birthday coming up in about three months. She we had moved and so we were staying she was really kind of my lifeline and So I was like, I really wanted to do something special for her and I had never written before I'd always had stories in my head, but never written because I have terrible grammar and I was like, you know what Jennifer doesn't care if I have terrible grammar.

[00:02:00] Jami: She doesn't care. She doesn't care if I've got bad grammar I'm just gonna write this story. It'll be really special. She'll love it and I started writing and quickly wrote myself in a corner because I didn't know what I was doing and So then I told her I was going to write you a birthday, you know, I mean, I had three months, like, how hard could it be?

[00:02:21] Jami: And but that was a timeline 

[00:02:23] Teddy: you set for yourself, was it? Yeah, three months 

[00:02:26] Jami: within probably two weeks, I had written myself in a corner and didn't know how to get out of it. So I told her I was going to write you a book for your birthday and, but I don't know how and, um, everything. And so she said, no, no, now you have to.

[00:02:40] Jami: So we sort of loosely talked about what would be a funny fish out of water story, which actually turned into my very first book, which was Running from a Rock Star. But it was one of those things where, you know, I would ride a little bit, and then I'd put it away, and then I'd ride a little bit and put it away.

[00:02:58] Jami: And then my computer crashed and I lost everything. I had about 30, 000 words, I guess, and I lost everything. I couldn't, we couldn't retrieve it. And I was like, excuse me. I was like, well, I'm not an author anyway, I sort of let it go and I turned 50 and we were, I was with my family and I said, you know, I think the only thing I regret is that, you know, In 50 years, it's not finishing that book.

[00:03:26] Jami: And they're like, well, you should do it. You should finish it. And I was like, no way. I'd have to start over and I'm not doing that. And I don't know, a couple of months later, my daughter came in, my youngest daughter came in and said, mom, I found this flash drive in my car and I think your book is on it.

[00:03:44] Jami: And it was 20, 000 words of the 30 ish thousand that I had written. And I thought, you know what? It's now or never if I don't do it now, I won't do it. And so I joined Romance Writers of America. I started going to meetings and that was in January and of that year. And I, in May decided that I needed to.

[00:04:14] Jami: Go to the critique group that they offered and you know from January to May. I pretty much talked about writing as one does and So then I went to the critique group and I didn't know you were supposed to email your pages I thought you were supposed to You know, pass them about, and I printed off my 10 pages and pass them out to the people and we're at this little restaurant in Texas, but it's a chain and it's called Panera Bread.

[00:04:44] Jami: They have great potato soup and so they're reading my pages while I'm sitting there eating my potato soup, trying not to vomit because they're reading and I am so embarrassed. You know, I don't know what I'm doing. I know I don't know what I'm doing. And 1 woman actually did throw the pages on the table and say, I don't know if I can do anything with this.

[00:05:04] Jami: And I'm like, oh, that's fine. And a couple of other ladies. Those said no way. This is funny. I want to know what happens next. Like, there are problems for sure. But, this is funny. I want to know what happens next. So they start talking amongst themselves about How the story could be better what needed to happen?

[00:05:29] Jami: I had them in a room for 10 pages and they never interacted. So they're not even talking to me necessarily. They're talking to each other and i'm furiously taking notes and I leave and go home and I fix it. I will fix it as well as I can, according to what, you know, to what they said, as far as like content and structure couldn't fix the grammar really yet.

[00:05:54] Jami: So that was okay. And I went back and I really think they were more surprised that I came back after that critique than the fact that I had done anything. But the fact that I had come back showed them that I was serious. And I was really lucky that the women in that group were all, if not all published, most of them were published, and they really were, even though they were a little merciless at times, they really did believe in my story and believed in me.

[00:06:29] Jami: And so that was in May, and then from May until September, October, I went, we went every two weeks, and they, For that story apart every two weeks and and it was mostly grammar stuff because I would catch on to the storytelling part of it, like showing versus telling, you know, the, and things like that, you know, and I did, I was a stand up comic when I was younger. And so I know how to tell a story that you may not believe that now, cause I'm dragging this out, but I do know how to tell a story that moves along. You know, I understand pacing. And so I, But, and then it was mostly the grammar stuff, like dialogue tags.

[00:07:17] Jami: And one week they got me for run on sentences. So I went home and fix those and came back the next time. And they got me for sentence fragments. I did cry that time, but I waited until I got in the car because I just couldn't cry in front of them. And I was like, I'm never going to get this, but I just kept going back.

[00:07:35] Jami: I just, I, there was something in knowing I didn't know and admitting I didn't know what I was doing. And being open to them teaching me and so all summer, May to September, I, or October into October, we did this and then in November, I won my first Romance Writers of America contest with them. That book, well, with the first 10 pages of that book, and they wanted the, it was a publisher, small publisher.

[00:08:11] Jami: They wanted the book and thankfully, I did not have the book finished, you know, at all. And I had more than 10 pages, but I didn't have it finished and I just said, well, you know, I'm just not quite ready to show you the whole thing. I'll let, you know, and they really wanted it. And. But thankfully, I didn't have it finished because I would have given them that book and it would have been a mistake because I ended up self publishing that book and it was the beginning of my career.

[00:08:42] Jami: And so, yeah, that's how I got started and it was it was painful and, uh, continues to be painful at times. But, yeah, it was worth it. It was worth it. 

[00:08:54] Teddy: Brilliant. So you mentioned that all your books, your books are self published. Are they all self published or have you got books that have been also published?

[00:09:01] Teddy: And was that an active decision you made or was it an accident? No. How's that? It 

[00:09:06] Jami: was an active decision. Well, you know, and when I started, of course, I was thinking the deal, the publishing deal, you know, that's what I wanted as we all do. And Or most of us, but about a year or so into the process of writing this book, because it did take me several years to write it and write it well.

[00:09:26] Jami: through my Romance Writers of America met a very successful romance author named Roxanne St. Clair. She came and spoke at one of our RWA meetings and or like conferences. And we were talking, and she was telling us that she had just turned down and walked away from her traditionally published contract, and she'd been traditionally published for years, very successful making, you know, good money, but it was a six figure contract that she had walked away from because they refused to Remove this one small part of the contract that she knew They had removed for other people.

[00:10:07] Jami: They wouldn't remove it for her. And so she walked away and we were We met her nine months after She had walked away from that six figure contract and she had made more than six figures publishing on her own with that book in nine months. And so I was like, and then, and just of course, she was somewhat I don't want to say bitter because she wasn't bitter.

[00:10:32] Jami: She was just disillusioned with the traditionally published world. And I just was thinking, you know what? If. If we're going to only get, I was co writing actually a book at the time with one of my critique partners that was kind of a small holiday, clean, clean and wholesome, you know, rom rom com kind of book.

[00:10:55] Jami: And I was telling my critique partner, I was like, you know, if we're only going to make 2. 75 with this book, I want my 2, you know, if we'll have to pay Amazon or something, but I don't want to give away. We knew we were, we were going to traditionally publish it with her publisher for 99 cents. I mean, that was the plan, selling it for 99 cents and it just didn't make sense.

[00:11:18] Jami: So we decided to traditionally, I mean, to self publish that book and. You know, we put it out and we're like, okay, who's going to buy our book? And of course no one does, except for a few friends and family. And most of the time your friend, and I will tell your audience this, your friends and family will not buy, always buy your book and you just need to be okay with that because they're not your audience, they love you and they want you to succeed, but they're not your audience and they're And we can talk about this later, but their purchases of your book could actually hurt your book and talk about that later.

[00:11:56] Jami: But anyway, so that started me on this quest of how do you get your books seen? In this ocean of books, you know, yours is just a little drop of water. And a friend of mine told me that I should listen to the silmore books podcast Okay. Yep, except with brian coming in at the time. He had a co host with him and so I started listening and they kept talking about the SPP guys, the self publishing podcast guys, and it was these three guys, very irreverent, very fun, but they were doing, this was back in 2015.

[00:12:41] Jami: Into 2016, and they were doing all kinds of crazy stuff, you know, writing a book from conception to publication in a month and at the time that and showing it, you know, having I think they use a periscope or something and the whole process was, And and I mean, they just were doing a lot of things that were very innovative and they were iterating on everything they were doing.

[00:13:10] Jami: In listening to their podcast, I heard them talking about a conference they were having in May of 2016 called the Smarter Artists Summit and in Austin, Texas, which is about two and a half hours from me. And I told my husband, I think I should go to this. And it was 500, but we had lived in Austin. So I had friends I could stay with and stuff.

[00:13:34] Jami: And he was like, that's great. How are we going to pay for 500 for a ticket? And, you know, when I didn't have a book out or anything, and I mean, he wasn't saying I couldn't go. He was just saying, how are we going to do that? We had two kids in college, you know, the whole bit. And I was like, I got to think about it.

[00:13:53] Jami: I was like, you know what? I should wait. I should wait until I get a book out and then I'll go. And then I it was Christmas, like that all happened in December. And so we had Christmas. We were out of town. We came home. I checked my emails and I had an email from the Smarter Artist Conference saying that a woman named Julia Kent was going to be one of the speakers and Julia is a Romantic comedy writer as well.

[00:14:21] Jami: I'm sure that's romance, but they're rom coms And I had never met Julia, but I felt like this was my sign from God that I was supposed to go. So I returned all my Christmas gifts, and I had, I, while we were gone, I got a mileage check that I had forgotten about, and I paid for my ticket to the Smarter Artists Summit.

[00:14:42] Jami: And that was the best 500 I've ever spent in my whole life because 

[00:14:46] Teddy: it 

[00:14:47] Jami: was amazing. First of all, it was just an amazing conference. It was small. I met all, most of the friends I have today in this business, my really good friends that I can trust and that I feel like are on my side and I'm on their side, I met at that conference and they weren't.

[00:15:05] Jami: I can only think of one, maybe two that write romance, the rest of them, but we were all in this together kind of thing. And when I went to the conference, my plan was to put out my first book not the co written book, but my book, Running from a Rock Star, out. In that summer of 16, but in talking to Julia, I emailed her again, never had met her, but I emailed her and said, Hey, I write romantic comedy.

[00:15:36] Jami: Can I please buy you a coffee? If you've got time, I'd love to speak, you know, just pick your brain for a minute. And she was like, she was so gracious. She said, absolutely. So we talked and she really recommended I wait to put out that book till I had. She am one of the leaders of the conference both happened to be sitting there when we were talking and they both said, yeah, you need to wait until you have three books.

[00:16:01] Jami: Well, I didn't have three books. I write really slowly. And so, but I did wait and they also suggested I learn this business of self publishing. And so I spent a year learning the business of self publishing, listening to every podcast I could get my hands on and doing, taking. You know, free courses and free because we all, we were really not, we were broke.

[00:16:26] Jami: I mean, we really had no extra money for self publishing because who knew if it was even going to, you know, I mean, it was just this thing and while my husband was supportive, I mean, reality is reality. And to the point where I sold plasma to pay for my edits for my book because that's how important I really felt like professional editor was.

[00:16:53] Jami: Yeah. Uh, even though the book was pretty clean because my critique partners had been through it and stuff, I still felt like I needed. An editor. So I sold edits, I got a professional cover and then I gave myself time to build an email list before I put the book out, which I did. 

[00:17:14] Teddy: Let's, so yeah, let's go back to the sort of the right, your writing techniques, because we'll come to those marketing bits in a bit, but so with your writing, all sorts of your oncoms, mostly like in your first books, they're You're like the running from series.

[00:17:29] Teddy: what was your inspiration for like writing about brides on the run? 

[00:17:33] Jami: Well, you know, they're all running with brides and there was no inspiration. I will tell you, I wrote the first book and she, they were, it's a wake up in Vegas married rom com, she runs away back to Texas. And then as I'm in that book though, I did write two other characters that another book could be about.

[00:17:55] Jami: Cause you know, I mean, if you read, you know, that's kind of that standalone in a series sort of thing is what readers like. And my critique partners and I were talking about what the next book should be. And one of them said, well, I don't know. I think Luanne should be a runaway bride, and I was like, yeah, I love that idea, but Scarlet's kind of a runaway bride, too, and we all went, a runaway bride series, and that's how it was born, and so it was born after the first book was written, pretty much, and So that's how it came to be.

[00:18:31] Teddy: Was it always romantic comedy? You were going to write about it, do you think? 

[00:18:34] Jami: Yeah, it was always romantic comedy. When I, when we moved from Austin to Houston my kids were in school and I had spent I think I was like 40. 44, 45 when we moved and my kids, you know, I had spent almost 20 years in Austin cultivating friendships and relationships with people and they were the kind you want your whole life.

[00:19:01] Jami: You know, those great, great friendships and, so we moved. My kids were upset, but they quickly made friends here. My husband had his work. I had a job, but I had no friends. I had no friends and it was just really hard. I'm an extrovert and it was super, super hard and I was very sad for a while and I picked up a Susan Elizabeth Phillips book Nobody's Baby But Mine, and I was reading that, and I started laughing, and I heard this laughter.

[00:19:43] Jami: And didn't realize it was coming from me. Like I had not laughed like that since we had moved to Houston. It's amazing when books do that. It is it just transported me but also transformed me like I was happy Because I was reading this book and I and this was before I had started writing and I remember thinking If I ever wrote a book, this is the kind of book I would want to write and still No idea that I would ever ever write a book yeah And so when I started writing, I knew this is, this was the kind of book I was going to write.

[00:20:17] Jami: Yeah. Yeah. It fits my voice. Rom coms fit my voice or at the time, they fit my voice really well. Yeah. I grew up in a small town A lot of times people, you know, I've had people say that could never happen. And I'm like, Oh, but it has in one way or another, you know, small, quirky, weird things happen in small towns.

[00:20:41] Teddy: It's quite good for a standup as well, isn't it? That's a small town idea. Yeah. Cause I did stand up as well. And that, that idea of like talking about. The minute I have something that happens in somewhere that is a bit weird, then that is it's quite weird. I know, 

[00:20:52] Jami: and it's hard not to make small town characters caricatures.

[00:20:57] Teddy: Yes. Because honestly 

[00:20:58] Jami: in life they are a bit of a caricature, you know, but, uh, so that's the trick. 

[00:21:03] Teddy: Why is there an old man walking around being racist? Well, there actually was 

[00:21:08] Jami: an old man. Yeah. Anyway, that's the. So that's why romantic comedies for me right now. 

[00:21:14] Teddy: Yeah. I read before that you, you love Outlander and I I do that my wife.

[00:21:19] Teddy: Yeah. We're obsessed about that. The, we've watched the tv, not the pro, not the not read, not the book so much, but, 

[00:21:23] Jami: oh, I, you know, I don't really watch the show even though I love. I love the show. I have watched it. I love who they cast as Jamie. I think they got that spot on. 

[00:21:33] Teddy: My wife's obsessed with him.

[00:21:34] Teddy: Yeah. we'll talk about that. Those are sort of characters you like, you know, where it's quite like clear what their sort of goals are, what they're aiming to do. Is that, that those sort of characters they have in Outlander, is that similar to your characters? Do you think?

[00:21:46] Jami: Gosh, that's a hard question because I don't know that's exactly they're so different. I mean, I would like to think my characters are have very clear goals and you know, that's when you're telling a story you want that to be the case. Um, but yeah, I mean, I would say that I tried to bring, I do think about Jamie a lot Especially when I was first writing I think about him a lot But I think about him a lot when I was first writing because his his character is so compelling, you know I mean, he's he's vulnerable, but he's also very strong and he's uh, He's a victim in some ways, but he's also Not, you know, he's a con and so I do try to write really strong heroes like that Who have this sort of softer underbelly that we can you know relate to.

[00:22:36] Teddy: Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Are there any with the, when you're trying to think of characters or even the way you write do you have any key influences that you kind of fall back on quite a lot or are there any that have really inspired you in your writing? 

[00:22:50] Jami: Well, Susan Elizabeth Phillips. Just her characters, the way she writes them.

[00:22:55] Teddy: Yeah,

[00:22:55] Jami: they're just so real, even though they are crazy. They they are so real. So that's really, I think for me, that's 1 of the best Lucy score. I love her characters too. Yes. And she's amazing. She is. She's, she's a friend of mine and she's amazing. And but yeah, I mean, before I started writing

[00:23:18] Jami: yeah, I would say that those are the ones that I think about. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:23:23] Teddy: Oh, nice. To go back to what you said before about editing. So did you hire an external editor and what was that process like? 

[00:23:30] Jami: Uh, I had been in or am in the 20 books to 50k group, but I got in it when there were only 4, 000 people in it.

[00:23:39] Jami: And so, um, 

[00:23:41] Teddy: just the people that don't know, that's like a, it's a big Facebook that that help people to write 20 books basically, and that the aim is that you can make money from having 20 books, 

[00:23:49] Jami: right, 

[00:23:49] Teddy: right.

[00:23:50] Jami: So when I was in that group, I, you know, because it was smaller, I met some people in a, I met this one woman in a promo that we did which is how I built my newsletter. That's how it started. And she was, she's an author, but she's also an editor. And so when I decided to get an external editor, I sent out sample pages to like about five editors.

[00:24:16] Jami: And All of them except for her tried to change my voice. So when you're writing rom coms and I would say even small town rom coms or any kind of rom com where you have unique characters, I think you got to be real careful because with your editor because you do not want them changing your voice like in dialogue my characters do not speak in complete sentences or they speak in run on sentences and People were trying to change that and or change the wording of something, you know, of something I said, that's really kind of a colloquialism to my small towns, and I did not want those things changed.

[00:25:01] Jami: And so, Serena was the only one who. Did not change my voice. 

[00:25:08] Teddy: So for people who haven't like written novels, maybe before, what's that editing process look like? How does that work? 

[00:25:14] Jami: So she does my copy line edits. I do have someone who does a developmental edit now because I'm not, no longer in the critique group.

[00:25:22] Jami: When I was in the critique group, I didn't feel like I needed a developmental editor because I had the critique group, you know? And, but so my entire process is I write the first draft. I send it to developmental editor. They look at it. They tell me where the holes are, where the problems are and Send it back.

[00:25:42] Jami: Then I write it, rewrite it several times, a couple of times. And then once it's as good as I can get it, I send it, excuse me, I send it to my copy line editor. 

[00:25:56] Teddy: Okay. And they're checking for like spelling. Yes. Serena Clark, 

[00:25:59] Jami: but she does a heavy copy line at it. And because she's been with me from the beginning and she knows my voice and she knows.

[00:26:07] Jami: Okay. Characters and she knows my audience she will come back in and like, as an example in my book, Homecoming King my developmental editor had said that there was a part in the flight moment that she didn't feel real comfortable with because the hero curses at the heroine. And, or not at the heroine, but he uses a curse word, a pretty strong curse word in in their interaction.

[00:26:39] Jami: And she was like, that just feels aggressive for your books. That's what my developmental editor said. And I was like, well, you're. You're a Kiwi. I mean, you're from New Zealand and you're real sweet and you don't understand this. It's a football book. You know, he's a football player. You don't understand like football in Texas and all of this.

[00:26:59] Jami: And I didn't say that, but that's what I was thinking. So I left it in and sent it to, then did the book, sent it to my developmental editor. I mean, my line editor, Serena and Serena is also from Australia. And she said the exact same thing, not knowing that Laverne had said that in the developmental edit.

[00:27:21] Jami: And again, I was like, you guys are just too sweet. You don't understand how real Texas men talk, you know, all this stuff. Anyway, 

[00:27:32] Teddy: you guys must swear pretty badly if you think an Australian, thinks you're swearing 

[00:27:37] Jami: But he just felt like she just felt like the way this hero she was like i'm afraid your audience Will miss the point of what he's saying Which is showing this really vulnerable side of him because he is coming back at her with this swear word and I was like, well, I'm going to leave it in and I left it in until the last minute and then I took it out.

[00:28:07] Jami: And I'm so glad I took it out because she was right. She was right. I mean, in looking at some of the comments and some of the that scene is really pivotal. And I do think it would have lost something had I not left out. So she does, you know, grammar. She does. Thank God. She does grammar. She does all of that.

[00:28:27] Jami: And but she also gives me kind of a heavy copy line at it with some developmental stuff that. Maybe, not that I've missed, but that I've if she thinks I can go deeper or if she thinks i've gone too deep and I don't need to go that deep She tells me I don't always take her advice But a lot of times I do because she does know my writing and me and my audience so well 

[00:28:51] Teddy: Yeah, yeah, and then 

[00:28:52] Jami: after that I do a Proofread, I have someone proofread.

[00:28:57] Teddy: Right, so it's quite a lengthy process, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, because a lot of people just have one editor. Yeah. which one's more important, if you know, if someone's on a bit of a budget, they're just starting out? Copy line. Copy line, yeah, just to make sure the grammar and everything's in there and making sense.

[00:29:10] Teddy: Yeah. 

[00:29:10] Jami: Yeah, for me that would be it, because you can, like, I did not use a proofreader the first because I, you know, I had arc readers or and I still rely heavily on arc readers because I feel like they catch a lot of things, you know, that, cause I mean, you can have a proofreader and they're still going to miss stuff.

[00:29:30] Jami: I mean, it's hard. but if I only had a certain amount of money, I would definitely try to do the line that copy line at it. 

[00:29:40] Teddy: Cause with the arc stuff. The ARC editors, readers, so you can usually get them for free if you can like get the right contacts and you can build that up. Yeah. Especially most of my books are nonfiction, so I find it relatively easy to get it because there's loads of people interested in the topics, but there's loads of people who are happy to get free books who just love reading, just want to get stuff.

[00:29:56] Teddy: Right. Yeah, places like Freebooksy, really good place to get that sort of thing. Obviously, because your books are completely self published what you have to do your own marketing and all that. So what the, have there any been particularly good marketing strategies you've worked for you? 

[00:30:08] Jami: Yeah. As we talked about earlier building my newsletter before I published was probably looking back the best thing I ever did.

[00:30:18] Jami: And I did that through a promotion. That in the 20 books to 50 K group, someone was doing a preview promo, which was just the 1st, some few chapters. I did 3 chapters. Some people, 1 person did 6 chapters of their book. I did 3 chapters because I wanted it to end on a hook. So, in that promotion. We did not make you make them sign up before they got the book, they read the book, they read the preview, then decided if they wanted to sign up.

[00:30:51] Jami: And I think for me, that was a really good option because I only got people who wanted to be on my list. I got 80. 81 people or something like that and I was thrilled because I had zero and so 80 people I'm like, this is amazing but then I was doing some PA work for another romance author who was a pretty big name And she was doing a full book promo with a bunch of authors And she asked me if I wanted to put in my preview and I was like, well, it's just a preview and she said no That's fine So, you know and on the on there it clearly says it's a preview, you know It's on the cover and everything.

[00:31:33] Jami: It clearly said it was a preview, but those people did have to Give their email address before they got the preview, but most of the authors in that promo wrote Pretty similarly to me, you know, maybe not complete romantic comedy, but lighter romance and stuff. And so I had 1, 200 people on my email list before my first book came out.

[00:31:58] Jami: So, that all happened about six weeks before the book came out and I immediately sent them an email. After I got them on and said, Hey, this is me. Good to, you know, so glad to meet you. Here's something hilarious that happened to me. And it was this crazy story about how I had thought I had gained a bunch of weight and just like a few days because I had accidentally put on my.

[00:32:24] Jami: Teenage daughters pants that were just like my pants and they I got them button. God knows how but and There were five sizes too small, but I got the button, but I like spent the entire evening thinking What have I like I just wore these pants what has happened to me and realized that they were my daughters later Because I didn't have on my reading glasses when I got dressed and anyway so it was this it was a very crazy story very funny and But I wanted them to understand this is what you're getting from me.

[00:32:57] Jami: If you don't like this then you can cut it's totally fine 

[00:33:04] Teddy: But how do you use your newsletter now? Do you have particular types of content that you like to push out or are there any ways you use it to make money? 

[00:33:11] Jami: On my newsletter? 

[00:33:12] Teddy: Yeah, apart from like just the selling books. 

[00:33:14] Jami: No, I it's just my books Um, I do offer like from the beginning I did newsletter swaps because I had this 1, 200 person newsletter.

[00:33:24] Jami: That was enough to buy For people to be willing to swap with me. So 

[00:33:29] Teddy: that's other authors posting their books to like similar sort of topics. I would 

[00:33:32] Jami: put their book in my newsletter. They would put my book in their newsletter. And so when the book launched, I had newsletter swaps set up for like nine days after the book launched.

[00:33:43] Jami: And but I don't, did you 

[00:33:46] Teddy: use a particular service for that or was it just, you did it with people, you know, 

[00:33:50] Jami: I use people, well, a lot of them were in that 20 books to 50 K group because I just put out like, Hey, yeah. And then some other people that I had met, that is 1 of the things also about waiting a year to publish, I had a chance to really meet and get to know some people in this industry and in my genres.

[00:34:10] Jami: You know in my genre and it really paid off in the end. Um, yeah, and so yeah So when I send out a newsletter, it's mostly slice of life stuff Ways i've embarrassed myself in public. It was hard during covid because I couldn't go out and embarrass myself in public So then it became a lot of a how we doing, you know, are we hanging in there?

[00:34:32] Jami: How much you know? Dry shampoo. Have you used this week? And you know stuff like that and Then But every time I send, and I don't, like, I don't, my emails are not by my books. They're just not I always have my books in my emails. I have the links to my books, my audio books. Yeah, it's just 

[00:34:56] Teddy: a bit of a, you just tell 'em what you're up to.

[00:34:58] Teddy: What insights too. I have the 

[00:34:59] Jami: new, the books that I, you know, from other authors, and I sell books every time. I send out a newsletter every time. Oh. And my newsletter now is. I just did a call, it was around 20, 000 now it's around 17, 000 because I switched and I had some duplicates and then I got rid of a few people that were just not, you know, I was getting emails back from them saying they weren't available.

[00:35:25] Jami: Yeah. And then I've had some unsubscribed, which is fine with me. I do not worry about unsubscribes because I don't, if you're not going to carry your weight on my email list by buying my books and you don't want to be there, then I don't want to pay for you. So I, I give them a place to follow me, Amazon, Goodreads BookBub.

[00:35:48] Jami: So, you know, when I have a new book, but if you're not a newsletter person, so fine. So fine. 

[00:35:55] Teddy: Yeah, fine. Move along. And were there any other marketing tips you've used to help promote your books? Like, for example, have you used any ads or or like any sort of PR or anything like that? 

[00:36:04] Jami: I've done in the beginning because, you know, I'd heard book blogs were good.

[00:36:09] Jami: I've done that once. Twice I've done it twice. Yeah, those are hard because you can't measure those like they're very difficult to measure 

[00:36:19] Teddy: Which ones is that? Sorry, 

[00:36:20] Jami: I did. Which one did I do? It's been several years I'm sorry. You can't think of the name. 

[00:36:29] Teddy: That's right. 

[00:36:30] Jami: Yeah But they're hard to measure because you don't know how many sales are coming from that place Um, I do uh in the the first year I did Amazon ads and they were super successful for me.

[00:36:48] Jami: Excuse me. Allergies are terrible here they were really successful for me and I did them from the beginning like yeah I realized that my book had some momentum In the beginning it launched like that first book launched to 1050 in the store. On the first day and that's because of my newsletter and the newsletter swaps.

[00:37:10] Jami: I was doing but Because I realized they had some momentum. I started doing some very low cost ams ads at the time They were called ams ads at the time and Didn't tell my husband. I was like, you just got a 

[00:37:27] Teddy: credit card bill for 500. 

[00:37:29] Jami: I think I spent 130 and I had to tell him, you know, at the end of the month I spent 130 and he was, he said, well, how much did you make?

[00:37:39] Jami: And I said, Well, I think it was sixteen hundred dollars or something and he said 

[00:37:44] Teddy: oh wow, that's like an eight percent acre Yeah, 

[00:37:47] Jami: he was like that's a pretty good return on investment I think we can find that for two, you know, another two months because again, you don't get paid for two months You know, yeah, that was tricky.

[00:37:56] Jami: But I just, so they worked really well and then after the first year, something changed and I could not get them to work. But then, okay. I started doing Facebook ads and Facebook ads changed the game for me. Uh, really? Wow. Okay. And so with the same number of books, because I don't release very fast, like I've released my first book in April of 2017 and the second book in.

[00:38:22] Jami: You know the first of November of 2017 and then didn't release another book until like October then 18 so it was a whole year So with the same number of books and a shorter period of time in six months I made exact I made the same thing with Facebook ads that I had made in a whole year of or six months of AMS ads, so but Facebook has just changed the game for me and I'm After that, it was amazing.

[00:38:53] Jami: They are more difficult now, but at the time they were amazing. Yeah. 

[00:38:58] Teddy: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, cause I find Amazon ads great because you can obviously track them so easily and see when people have bought that's the only thing we're doing. Facebook ads is, it's hard to see when people have bought you to the clips, but I'm 

[00:39:10] Jami: not a huge data person.

[00:39:12] Jami: Like that's probably the understatement here. But. And so for a long time, I was like, you know, are, am I making more than I'm spending? Yes. Is the ad still performing? You know, are the numbers still relatively the same? Yes. Okay. I'm good. And then I thought, oh, I've got to learn to track. I've got to learn to track.

[00:39:34] Jami: And so I tried doing that. And it was so confusing and I was like, uh, no, am I making more than I'm spending? Yes. That's all that matters Because I don't run like a ton at a time So I know which ones are doing well and which ones aren't, you know 

[00:39:50] Teddy: Yeah, I guess at the day if you're making more than you're spending then that's good enough for most people 

[00:39:54] Jami: I mean, I know there are people that are more granular, but That's not me and it's not what I enjoy and I have learned in this business that you have to kind of let go of a few things and I used to worry about, like, what that made me sound like, or how that made me look like, like, I was just fine by the seat of my pants.

[00:40:12] Jami: Well. I was doing okay flying by the seat of my pants and I just had to be okay with that. Yeah. 

[00:40:17] Teddy: Yeah. Like with that, with Amazon ads, that's one of the things that a lot of authors find tricky is like getting those ads to work. It's why using some tools can be great, like publishing performance tool works really well for like managing those ads.

[00:40:29] Teddy: It's pretty good. 

[00:40:29] Jami: Yeah. Well, and I'm also in Kindle Unlimited. And so it's really, it's harder with Amazon ads if you're in Kindle Unlimited because you can't see, well, you can now, but it's, I mean, it's just trickier. So, and especially back then you couldn't see page reads like you can now in your, in your ads now, but, um, I still have a real hard time making those work.

[00:40:53] Jami: I think it's because of the the categories I'm in, you know, romance is really hot. Romantic comedy is very hot. Uh, what I have to pay to be seen is pretty high. And I only have seven books, you know, I don't have, I don't have the catalog to carry that large some, you know, in the beginning, yeah, of course.

[00:41:19] Teddy: Great. So apart from your books, you've also got a podcast, which I'd known then for writers. Yeah. So this is amazing. So I've listened to loads of this and it's. It's a really great resource, especially for, well, for fiction writers, but for people who, uh, you know, for, for getting into like writing and tips and tricks, a bit like this really, but more, you know, aimed specifically at fiction writers and less like about the business side of it.

[00:41:42] Teddy: So what's, tell me, yeah, tell me about that because I, why did you start it? How's it going? 

[00:41:47] Jami: Well, my, my cohost, Sarah. Rosette, she writes historical fiction. So I met her at that Smarter Artists Summit in 2016. And it turns, we went to Austin, but it turns out to live 10 minutes from me here in Houston.

[00:42:02] Jami: So, and then another friend of ours, we met there and she lives 10, she lived, we lived in this little 10 minute triangle, so it was amazing. And, but Sarah and I, from the beginning, we both had listened to a ton of podcasts to learn about. Indie publishing. I mean, we just, that was our education and Sarah had been traditionally published, but then left traditional publishing and went to indie publishing and we talked about a podcast forever.

[00:42:32] Jami: And then in 2019, we really seriously started talking about it and we were like, we really want to do this. We should really do this and so we did and we got some really great advice from someone named Becca Sime I don't know if you're familiar with her. Yes. I'm speaking 

[00:42:48] Teddy: to her in a few weeks. Yeah. 

[00:42:49] Jami: Oh, you'll love her and So Becca is brilliant.

[00:42:52] Jami: And she's she has her own better faster Academy and YouTube page and all of that and so she So we came up with like a name that was the indie author podcast. She was like, no, like you need something better. So that's when we came up with Wish I'd Known Them for Writers, you know, something that, that really talked about what we were going to do.

[00:43:17] Jami: And so we recorded quite a few episodes before we started in our first episode aired in January of 2020. Little did we know, you know, what was going to happen and thank God we had that podcast because it really carried me in particular through COVID because I am an extrovert and it was so difficult for me to not be around people.

[00:43:42] Jami: But. We say it's our love letter to this industry because we learned so much from podcasting. We want to give back and I would, I would disagree a little bit in that. It's not about the business side. I think it is more. I think it is. There are business things about our podcast that, have really helped and we do we ask every guest the same questions pretty much unless they're in a completely different field But we ask them what they wish they'd known about writing what they wish they'd known about marketing What they've done that they thought would work and didn't work and you know But has, you know, and vice versa and what changes in their thinking and stuff.

[00:44:23] Jami: And then we always ask them something specific to them, you know, if they're nonfiction author, then we ask them about nonfiction stuff and vice versa. But yeah, so we've had Becca on several times. In fact, we call it a drinking game. Anytime we mentioned Becca or the strengths, you know, she does the Clifton strengths.

[00:44:42] Jami: Everybody takes a drink and so we've had her on her. All her episodes are amazing. Claire Taylor who does something for the Enneagram writing, using the Enneagram for authors. She's amazing. And yeah, we just, yeah, we really love it. It's going well. We have 248 episodes. So there's kind of something for everyone.

[00:45:06] Jami: We've been doing it since 2020 and. 

[00:45:08] Teddy: Yeah, 

[00:45:08] Jami: don't have any intention of stopping right now. So, yeah, it's a lot of work. We love it. 

[00:45:13] Teddy: Who've been your favorite guest so far. 

[00:45:15] Jami: There are several. You know, I love like Lucy's been on Lucy score. Melanie Carlo has been a great. That's episode 209. Steph Green recently, we had her on, she was awesome.

[00:45:29] Jami: And she was talking about skeleton drafting. We just said, and like I said, anything with Becca, anything with Claire. Yeah, we just had some really great guests and, love it. 

[00:45:40] Teddy: If there's someone who's like, just about to start listening to your podcast, where would be best, what would be your best episode to recommend to get them to start understanding what it's 

[00:45:47] Jami: about?

[00:45:47] Jami: Oh, well, probably the first episode. Cause we really do talk about You know just explain what it's going to be about but episode 26 is really good We call it the mega episode because it's about launching and it's about everything both of us have done To kind of set us up for success. Sarah is super successful.

[00:46:05] Jami: Super successful and she's Like she did Kickstarter before anybody, well, not for anybody, but she was one of the first ones to do Kickstarter, did great. Like she always does things first and I'm like, okay, I'll try now. And you know, I am not the innovative one. She is. And so we our personalities are very different.

[00:46:28] Jami: So. If I'm too much for some people, Sarah's just right for them. It's that 

[00:46:32] Teddy: right. Great. That's amazing. What's your plans for the podcast? Have you got any, anything coming up? 

[00:46:38] Jami: We have supporters for our podcast. If you want to support, you can support us. And we're going to, we're doing some writing sprints.

[00:46:44] Jami: We're trying that to build. We have a Facebook page. We just are doing more of the same. Just finding interesting, cool people to talk to and finding out what they wish they'd known when they started out and what they would do different 

[00:46:57] Teddy: and 

[00:46:58] Jami: if they would do anything different. One of my favorite questions, it's the last question we ask everybody is, what have you done to set yourself up for success?

[00:47:04] Jami: And I just feel like that's such a great question because there's always something and it's usually not. Earth shattering, you know, it's not earth. It's just either being consistent or being positive or, you know, being around the right people or whatever. So, 

[00:47:19] Teddy: yeah, nice. So, obviously, you think networking is quite important for writers is, 

[00:47:24] Jami: I think it's the number 1 thing for me.

[00:47:29] Jami: It's made, it's meant the difference between success and failure. And that would 

[00:47:33] Teddy: be the answer to your question. If you're asked that, yeah, 

[00:47:36] Jami: in fact, I think it is, we've asked each other, Sarah and I've sort of interviewed each other and that I've used that before because it's just so been so vitally important to me.

[00:47:49] Jami: Yeah. 

[00:47:50] Teddy: So what's the best ways for people to do some networking? Cause I know a lot of authors especially are quite like introverted. They like sitting in their rooms typing and like not conferences aren't necessarily for everyone. So what's, have you found that sort of network? You know, 

[00:48:01] Jami: like groups are always good.

[00:48:03] Jami: Like the 20 bucks group. That's such a huge group, but there are other groups, like there's so many groups that Facebook groups that are genre specific or with a, you know, and if you don't find one or it's too big or whatever, start your own. I mean, like how hard is that? I remember Brian Cohen talking about how he in the, you know, he did a lot of networking because he would volunteer to put these anthologies together for authors and stuff like that.

[00:48:31] Jami: And I remember thinking that is so smart. Like he's the one Wanting to, you know, willing to do the work because other others want to do stuff. They just don't want to do the work. So if you're willing to do the work and put the, let's say, put a Facebook group together and moderated or whatever, people will come.

[00:48:50] Jami: And so, that's a good way. I do think conferences are a good way. And I do think. It's important to push those limits of what you think you can do because I'm telling you everyone i've ever talked to that was like I didn't want to come and I was really nervous go and they meet some people and they're so happy They went because the fact is we're all I mean like We compare our insides to other people's outsides And that's not a fair comparison because everybody's faking it.

[00:49:22] Jami: I mean everybody is faking it And so we, you know, everybody's got that insecurity. Everybody is worried that somebody won't like them or think they're weird or think they look weird. And if you just know that, then it's a lot easier to meet people. 

[00:49:37] Teddy: What are some of the favorite conferences you've been to hear about the 20 books, which is now the alternation one, but 

[00:49:42] Jami: yeah 20 books was one that I, I went to in the beginning.

[00:49:47] Jami: Right. Currently, one of my favorites is Anchors Con in Dallas. Alessandra Torre, she has a group, and that's a great group to get involved with too, is Anchors on Facebook. And it's anchors. I N K E R S. If you can't understand my Um, but anchors con is one of the best it's smaller about 200 people super Informative they have different tracks, you know for different, you know, whatever you're looking for or whatever level you're at there's tons of opportunity for networking and meeting people and just sitting and having conversations and You know, here's the deal when you're networking.

[00:50:32] Jami: You don't have to say anything. If you get in a group and people are talking, just sit there and listen. Like, that's the best way to soak in information. So, but, yeah, that's 1. I am and mink is always great. Novelist, there is a threshold for earning to get into that 1, but it's not horrible. and it's on their website this year.

[00:50:57] Jami: I'm doing the better faster Academy. Sarah and I are speaking there. In October, and then I will be at author nation doing a panel for wish I'd known them for right. Yeah, I'll see you there. I'm 

[00:51:11] Teddy: looking forward to that trip. Yeah, quite a big one for us to come over to America, go to Las Vegas and stuff.

[00:51:17] Teddy: So yeah, I'm excited. So just before it comes in, are there any, like for writers that are just starting out, like, especially, you know, especially if they're in the rom coms. Like your romance comedy, sorry, you know, your sort of area, have you any tips for them? any things they should really focus on just to make sure they're, you know, building their brands, getting their right, their book right in the first place.

[00:51:34] Jami: You know, I do I do author consulting and one of my favorite things to do is branding. I love branding. Branding is the promise you're making your reader. So if everything from your. book cover, your title, your content, your Amazon page. If that does not meet the promise that you're making your reader in whatever genre you're saying you're writing in, then you need to re examine that.

[00:52:04] Jami: So, and the best, one of the best ways to do that is to look at your comp authors, you know, authors that write what you write and see what their titles are, what their covers look like, what their blurbs look like, what their first, you know, their look inside looks like. In their books and yours needs to be similar like i'm not i'm not saying copy I am saying it needs to look similar.

[00:52:32] Jami: I mean similar but different you can be in it I mean the one of the worst things anybody can say to me a new author is well My book's not like anything you've ever read and I just want to go. Oh, honey. I'm, so sorry because that's I'm, sorry. 

[00:52:47] Teddy: Yeah, 

[00:52:47] Jami: it's probably not gonna sell because Readers, there is something called genre expectation, and if you're writing genre fiction, genre expectation.

[00:52:59] Jami: But even if you're writing nonfiction, I mean, there is a certain expectation for the reader experience and they want that. If it's outside of that experience for them, they're uncomfortable and they will not continue reading. Or they won't even pick it up because there is a certain feeling, especially with genre readers, there is a certain feeling, emotion experience that they want.

[00:53:27] Jami: And if they don't get that, they will move on to someone else who will give them that experience. 

[00:53:32] Teddy: Brilliant. That's really good advice. Thank you. You know, like don't try to be too out there at first. Maybe like just stick to the genre that you're trying to do. Right. Learn the, you know, learn from the best.

[00:53:40] Teddy: Like, it's basically just, you know, imitate, or innovate. Yes. You know, that sort of thing. I, exactly. Exactly. 

[00:53:46] Jami: Yeah. And then I think the other thing I would say is, you know, leaving the day job and riding full time. Is the goal, you know, it's the dream. Everybody has the dream, but I have learned in doing this for a long time, that maybe that shouldn't be the dream.

[00:54:06] Jami: Some of us need to be around people. And I left, I was fortunate. I was able to leave my job after my second book. And and it was great in the beginning. But it's hard and you have to know yourself. You have to know how much input you need from the outside world to be able to be creative and functional in the in your writing world and For me, I really need more input than just me in a room by myself And unfortunately, now I'm unemployable, I think, because I've worked for myself for so long.

[00:54:39] Jami: It would be hard, but I mean, I'm not opposed to going back to a job if the right job came along. I'm not just going to take a job, if the right job came along, because, and it's not anything but, I do, I have found that having outside influence, and it doesn't have to be a job, it can be volunteering, it can be whatever, that idea of, Oh, I just want to be with my computer in my room alone with my blanket and writing.

[00:55:06] Jami: Yeah. Sometimes that's a dream, but it's not a realistic dream because and so just adjusting your expectations, like you can still be super successful and super fulfilled. While working a job and writing and 

[00:55:25] Teddy: Yep. 

[00:55:25] Jami: So I just wanna maybe temporary expectation. 

[00:55:30] Teddy: Great. Well, thank you very much.

[00:55:31] Teddy: You're 

[00:55:31] Jami: welcome. 

[00:55:32] Teddy: Thanks so much for coming today. So if people wanna keep in touch with you, like follow you around where's the best place to do that? 

[00:55:38] Jami: My website www j jamie albright.com if you want to if you are interested in any, any consultant help. And I do everything from branding to, I don't do grammar. And I, or anything like that, that would be just unethical. And, but just anything as far as like launching help or anything like that, I can help you and you can find me at JennyAlbright. com backslash contact. And then the new podcast. Yeah. 

[00:56:14] Teddy: Yeah, sorry. I'll say the podcast is Wish I'd Known Then for writers, which is Wish I'd Known Then for writers.

[00:56:19] Teddy: com. But also you can just search that on all of the main ones. Yes. Yes. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for coming. I really appreciate your time today. Just before we go, so what's the one book that you'll read at the moment that you think maybe everyone should read? 

[00:56:32] Jami: Well, I'm not reading it at the moment, but it's queued up in my Audible thing to re listen to it is Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert.

[00:56:40] Jami: It is one of my very favorite writing books. And she taught, I mean, she just, it's big magic.

[00:56:47] Jami: Basically, writing through fear it's I don't remember the subtitle, but it is one of the best, best, best books on creativity and writing that I have ever read. And I read it about once a year because I reread it once a year because it's so good. 

[00:57:06] Teddy: Oh, great. I think that's nice to have a sort of the less famous, but from a famous author as the recommendation.

[00:57:12] Teddy: I really like that. So thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you. Well, it's great to speak to you. I really love your podcast. So please keep going. I find it really inspirational and it's a really good lesson. So everyone should subscribe to that now, but hopefully I'll see it all station. And yeah, thanks.

[00:57:25] Jami: Sure. No problem. 

[00:57:27] Teddy: Thank you so much for tuning into the publishing performance podcast. I really hope you found today's episode inspiring. I love chatting to authors, writers, and people in the publishing world. Now, just before we wrap up, let me tell you about Publishing Performance, the number one platform for authors who want to increase Amazon book sales, but are not really sure where to start.

[00:57:46] Teddy: Now, this show is all about helping you to sell more books. And if you're looking to boost your publishing game and to maximize your books potential on Amazon, Then publishing performance is designed to help authors just like you to grow your readership and to reach a much wider audience. Now I know that Amazon ads can be slightly complicated, which is why publishing performance is like having a personalized ad account manager to create your ad campaigns, to choose your best keywords.

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