The Publishing Performance Show

Brownell Landrum - From Screenplay to Novel: Building a Multi-Platform Author Career

• Teddy Smith • Episode 40

Share episode

Brownell Landrum is a multi-genre author who transitioned from business writing to fiction and screenwriting. Drawing from her experience in marketing and storytelling, she creates novels structured for potential TV/film adaptation, with a special focus on reincarnation themes that bridge multiple lifetimes and genres.

In this episode:

  • Journey from nonfiction to fiction writing
  • Structuring novels for TV/film adaptation
  • Building engaged Facebook communities
  • Using lead magnets and book funnels
  • Balancing multiple writing formats
  • Marketing strategies for self-published authors
  • Creating bonus content for readers


Resources mentioned:


Book Recommendations:


Connect with Brownell Landrum:


Connect with Teddy Smith:


Join our Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/publishingperformance/

Support the show

[00:00:00] Teddy: Seeing your work go from the pages to the screen is the dream for many authors. Seeing your work on TV or on films is absolutely fantastic and it really validates your work and Brownell Lundrum is someone who's done just that many times. In fact, she's even written her most recent books in order to be made into TV series.

[00:00:24] Teddy: So she's written them from a TV perspective first, which is a really interesting perspective because it changes the whole way that you look at your character arc and the way that you structure stories. So it's absolutely fascinating to speak to someone who's managed to sell their work to TV. Lots of authors want to hear about that.

[00:00:41] Teddy: So in this episode, we're going to talk about how you structure your books to get them to work for TV, how you can sell your work to TV companies and much, much more. Hi everyone. It's Teddy Smith here and welcome to the publishing informant show. I'm really happy to be here with Brownell Landrum, who is a.

[00:00:58] Teddy: Also over a dozen books and also a screenwriter and she's got some really exciting stuff to tell us about how she's written some books in order to be made into programs, TV programs in future. So really exciting to have her in the show and thank you for joining us. 

[00:01:12] Brownell: My pleasure. I'm happy to be here.

[00:01:14] Teddy: Great. Where did you start? So why did you start writing? Uh, just give me a bit of background to, to you and what you do. 

[00:01:21] Brownell: Yeah. Well, my first book was nonfiction. Um, you know, I came from a business world I had actually just been through a really bad year.

[00:01:28] Brownell: I had lost my business. I was going through bankruptcy, foreclosure, relationship over, my dog dying, like all of these things, losing my house. And and I've just, I kept saying, there has to be a reason why there has to be a, you know, a why, and then all of a sudden I'm kind of meditating and I'll, and I get this message of, well, there are 5 reasons why bad things happen.

[00:01:50] Brownell: So my 1st book is 5 reasons why bad things happen. Um, and I just, I got so much pleasure out of writing it. And my, you know, former left brain, you know, linear thought process could write a nonfiction book with just research and backing it up and all that stuff. So it wasn't until many years later that I thought I'm going to try fiction and had a blast.

[00:02:11] Brownell: And then a few years after that, I thought I'll try writing a screenplay and it's all. All for all downhill from there. No, I'm just kidding. 

[00:02:20] Teddy: That's one of my dreams is to write a screenplay of like, but, uh, for a comedy, but I haven't really put enough work into it yet. So they're easier than 

[00:02:28] Brownell: novels. I will tell you screenplays a lot easier than a novel.

[00:02:31] Teddy: Oh, why is that? 

[00:02:33] Brownell: Well, because, and I usually write both. I mean, you were kind of, you know, implying that. And when I, because what I'll do is generally start with the screenplay, not always, but I'll generally start with it because you get, there's a pretty set structure. You kind of know by this page, this happens by this page, these things happen.

[00:02:50] Brownell: And so you get a really solid structure. But you never haven't necessarily gotten deep into who the characters are. I mean, you've got like, it's all kind of this level deep and it works. It's fine because you get actors who interpret and you know, you can help them with that. But with a novel, you really have to get much, much deeper.

[00:03:09] Brownell: So I like writing both because the screenplay gets the structure and the story down and you can crank that out much faster and then get into the novel. And then you get it deeper. And then all of a sudden your screenplay has more depth and meaning to it. You go back to it. So it works on both ends. 

[00:03:25] Teddy: That makes perfect sense.

[00:03:25] Teddy: I was speaking to Craig Martel the other day, uh, who I've interviewed for this podcast and he was, we were talking all about how, you know, giving the backgrounds to the characters. It can, some readers think it's a bit boring, but for me, I'm like, I love reading the background of characters and understanding like what drives them and what they're doing in their spare time and all those sorts of things.

[00:03:42] Teddy: Cause it makes sure you can understand their ambitions and things like that. 

[00:03:47] Brownell: Absolutely. You know, they call it your fear, desire, and your misbelief right at the characters, right? And if you kind of know where they're coming from there, and as you know, a lot of the novels I write are about reincarnation.

[00:03:56] Brownell: So you want a backstory or do you want a backstory? Because if you go into past lives, you've got a backstory to the backstory, depending on how many lives, you've got a lot of backstory. So it's like, Oh, that explains why somebody today was, you know, you know, they lived in the middle ages and this is what happened.

[00:04:13] Brownell: Now we can kind of know them better who they are today. So, so you can go crazy with that. 

[00:04:18] Teddy: Yeah, of course. So is reincarnation, that's like a topic you're really interested in, uh, or is it just something you've been writing about? 

[00:04:24] Brownell: well, both my first book, as I said, was, you know, nonfiction.

[00:04:27] Brownell: It didn't have anything to do with reincarnation, although, The five reasons why bad things happen can kind of apply to another level of depth if you believe in reincarnation, but I started writing my first novels and and I wrote it just kind of in like a modern day love story. And then I thought, you know, what I really want to do is start getting into their past lives.

[00:04:44] Brownell: And, you know, even if you don't believe in reincarnation, you know, you don't have to believe in time travel to enjoy a time travel show and or movie or whatever, uh, or a book. And for me, it was like, all of a sudden now I've got so much more depth. I've got more of me in that story. And if you. ever write or read any kind of love story or, you know, I wouldn't put myself in the traditional romance because there's a structure for those.

[00:05:09] Brownell: But then all of a sudden, you know, you get kind of bored once the couple gets together, right? It's all about the lead in, but then if you can introduce them in a whole nother lifetime and a whole nother situation with whole new obstacles and challenges, then you can kind of keep it alive and then add more depth to it.

[00:05:23] Brownell: So I have a lot of fun writing those. 

[00:05:25] Teddy: Yeah, quite a clever idea as well because obviously if you're making up reincarnation stories there's quite, you've got unlimited backstories you can create for your characters. 

[00:05:34] Brownell: You can go forever and you can kill them and then you can bring them back to life 

[00:05:38] Teddy: and 

[00:05:40] Brownell: it's not Frankenstein, you know, and you really can't bring them back to life.

[00:05:43] Brownell: Yeah, it really does. It's like you have, Oh, I lost this person, but then all of a sudden we get to, you know, see them before or after. Um, in fact, I wrote, uh, there's a couple of things that I wrote. One is I wrote a story that's most, that's very autobiographical. Not completely. It's there's definitely fictionalized parts of it.

[00:06:00] Brownell: But it's a lot of my story and it's called the end. And then my tagline is, is the end ever really the end if it's a reincarnation story, like it doesn't really have to end, does it? If you realize that they might've known each other before or might know each other again. So it's very much, uh, very fun to do that.

[00:06:17] Teddy: No, that's great. It sounds great. You just previous, just before we were talking, when you talk about screenplays, you mentioned structure like they have a set structure and things like that. So that, I think that's quite interesting thing you said, uh, do you apply that concept to your writing novels as well?

[00:06:32] Teddy: Like, is there a, do you have a set format that you use or a template that you use? Uh, tell us a bit about that. 

[00:06:37] Brownell: yes. I said generally I will start with the screenplay and then I'll adapt to the novel. So it'll have the sort same sort of structure. 

[00:06:44] Teddy: Yeah. 

[00:06:44] Brownell: With the new series that I just launched, in pre-order just a few days ago, and now we're already rising in the ranks, which is super exciting.

[00:06:51] Brownell: What I did with that is I, it's a trilogy and I structured it. To be adaptable to television, which is a whole different discussion when you're talking about structure. and what I did was I created, I have 3 books and each book is 10 chapters and so each chapter is an episode. So each chapter has the cliffhanger and has kind of its own theme within that chapter that has kind of a beginning, middle and end with that chapter.

[00:07:16] Brownell: So, you know, my hope is that it gets, you know, somebody gets excited about it for television. And then I can write the screenplay because I like I met a woman a number of years ago who got a million dollars for her memoir. And I went to her. I said, you need to write the screenplay. And she's like, no, no, no.

[00:07:33] Brownell: They have people for that. And the problem is, if you get traditionally published. You almost always get it optioned for television or film, but it's almost never made because then they have to go spend a lot of money for the screenplay. But if you can structure your book or your, you know, your novel to be adaptable and then can write the script, you've just exponentially increased your chances of getting it produced.

[00:07:57] Teddy: Yeah. So if someone wants to It's a really good skill 

[00:07:59] Brownell: to have. 

[00:08:00] Teddy: Yeah, definitely. And if someone was one of the listeners wanted to do something like that, what would, what, how, what steps they need to take to create that book in the structure that could be, is it, is it that chapter format you think is the best way to do it?

[00:08:13] Teddy: Or are there other ways you could do it? 

[00:08:15] Brownell: There's other ways. I don't know if you know who Blake Crouch is. His books are really a masterclass in writing a book. A novel that can easily be adaptable. In fact, he's one of the few that I know of that's written both the screenplay, both the book and the screenplay.

[00:08:29] Brownell: And he's got several in production. He's got, he's gotten optioned by, or in production, I should say by Shondaland, you know, Shonda Rhimes's production company who does Bridgerton there in the UK. and then Steven Spielberg optioned one of his other books. And if you read his books, you can see how they could just go forever.

[00:08:46] Brownell: As a, uh, in there, they've got a nice structure for a book and they also lead you to go, wow, this could keep going. You know, this could really be something you know, more than just a book and it's, he doesn't do it. Chapters like mine. Um, in fact, I've never seen anybody do it the way I did it. So we'll see, but you know, I already had an agent say they thought, Oh, this book could be a TV series.

[00:09:07] Brownell: So, you know, we'll see what happens. 

[00:09:09] Teddy: Yeah. Awesome. That's so exciting. Yeah. So with, with the books, all of the books are self published. So you're in charge of the marketing and that sort of thing. So have you picked any particular strategies that have like what's best for you? And I'm guessing you're mostly on Amazon, like most people are.

[00:09:26] Teddy: So. Like, have you adapted them from Amazon? 

[00:09:30] Brownell: Yes. You know, my first books, I kind of did the naive thinking. I could put it out there and get a market. And, you know, I should say my first book, my first novels, I have a series, you know, the first novel series called the duet stories series. And, I did get fans around the world, but not necessarily big and big numbers or big amounts.

[00:09:48] Brownell: And so this go around. I've been working on this series. Like I said, it's called we meet again. And it's a, it's basically a story about the reincarnation of a famous couple from history. Who are brought back together today to fulfill a prophecy that'll change the world. So it's kind of like a Da Vinci code meets Outlander type of, um, type of story with the love story and the reincarnation and all that element.

[00:10:10] Brownell: And for this one, I've been working on quite a few years now. I've worked on a lot of other things in between and other screenplays and things like that, but I've been working on it for a while. And I thought I'm going to do this one, right? So I got a book marketing coach to help me and my background's marketing, but book marketing is not the same.

[00:10:26] Brownell: You got to know the systems. And so I, you know, I looked and I've talked to some people about possibly traditionally publishing, but the problem was it just takes forever. You know, I mean, it could take a year to get an agent and another year or so to get the book out there. And then another year or two after that for the second.

[00:10:42] Brownell: And I was like, I'm too impatient. So, um, so I brought in this, this marketing expert and she sold hundreds of thousands of books. So she kind of knows the system and I've been following her guidance. And so I'm releasing a just pre set for pre release the first book in the series and I'm getting ready to upload the other books in the series so that they're available.

[00:11:02] Brownell: And the official launch is September 17th. So I don't know when this is going to air, but but I'm launching it for 99 cents for the first book. Right. And I, you know, I tell any of your listeners, write the series. If you think you're going to be a series, it might take you longer, but write the series.

[00:11:16] Brownell: Not only is it going to help your writing, because you can go back to the 1st book and see and build beyond that. You might not have seen foreseen when you wrote the 1st 1 and you could add a little clues into the 1st 1. But also, and of course mine is a serialized series, like you have to read the first one, you know, first and that kind of thing.

[00:11:34] Brownell: And then and so I'm doing kind of all the things you do, like I'm applying to BookBub, I'm doing these book tour ads, you know, all of these kinds of things. And I'm doing something I think is kind of unusual in that, you know, I want to build my platform and I do write a lot of stories about reincarnation.

[00:11:51] Brownell: So about a year ago, I started a Facebook group called Life is a Trip Reincarnation Stories. 

[00:11:56] Teddy: Yep. Okay, great. And 

[00:11:58] Brownell: now it's over 10, 000 people. So it's grown like crazy and people are love sharing their stories. And I realized that my legacy, if my legacy is to have more of these stories out in the world, that's a good thing, whether they're mine or not.

[00:12:11] Brownell: And so I get kind of the halo effect of my own books. 

[00:12:14] Teddy: The Facebook group, Life's a Trip, that isn't really, that isn't like actually. associated entirely with one of your book series. It's more like just general reincarnation stories and you're using that as a kind of a marketing platform for all of your books, which have a reincarnation element to them.

[00:12:30] Brownell: That's right. That's right. And a couple of months ago, just launched a podcast. That's kind of like a metaphysical modern love. If you know, the modern love podcast from the New York times. Yeah. And it's. Basically stories. So we've got writers from around the world. So anybody that's listening to this as a writer and has an idea for reincarnation or past life or metaphysical type of story, we will take those stories.

[00:12:51] Brownell: We will record them. And then we put them up on the podcast. And so, and we're on IMDB. So those writers can get IMDB credit. The whole works. And again, there's a halo because I am, you know, I'm the executive producer of the podcast. And also the author of The End and We Meet Again, so that those stories, you know, get a noticed without necessarily me trying to have it be all about me, because I think the bigger you build your world, the more you can help everybody, including yourself than trying to say, Oh, I'm going to be just pushing me.

[00:13:20] Brownell: How about let me support all these writers and we all benefit. So that's kind of the goal. 

[00:13:25] Teddy: So with that Facebook group how did you like get your first members to it? And also, how do you manage the stories and stuff that is shared on that group? Do you have, do you moderate it or is it just a bit of a free for all?

[00:13:37] Brownell: No, it's definitely not a free for all. It's very much moderated. I went, you know, very carefully to a bunch of other groups with similar, you know, over a billion and a half people on the planet believe in reincarnation. And I'd say twice that many are interested in the stories and like the stories, whether they, you know, say they believe or not, you know, it doesn't matter to me if people believe, because I, the whole point is they can be fictional or factual stories.

[00:13:59] Brownell: I don't care if they're true. I don't have to fight like, Oh, this is the way it works. It's like, this is just fun storytelling, right? This is just, Great storytelling. And so, and we get a lot of people. So I went into several other groups and said, can I promote about my podcast there? And I worked out strategic alliances with other groups with a similar, you know, kind of audience, but a different type of theme.

[00:14:21] Brownell: And so, for example, some people might be past life regression therapists and that might be what they do. And then I have a way for them to help build their audience within mine and mine within theirs. And I mean, there's one group with over 200, 000 people and they allowed me to post the other day. So that's a pretty, you know, there's a, once you kind of build your, know what your tribe is, you know, know who the people are that are interested in your thing.

[00:14:46] Brownell: And, you know, it grew, you know, a little bit and a little bit and grew pretty fast, but not necessarily to 10, 000. And then all of a sudden, like in the month of April and May, it grew like, a thousand people a week. I mean, it was just like going crazy and then the summer hit and things have slowed down. So, so I expect it to build back up as the podcast gets more exposure and you know, all that stuff.

[00:15:06] Brownell: Now, yet your second part of your question, right? Was how do I, how do I judge the stories? 

[00:15:12] Teddy: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:15:14] Brownell: Yeah. And the, two answers to that one is for the group. It can be just, You know, I count, there's just like, I have a class on how to turn your story into a story. So some people are like, Oh, I remember living, having a lifetime in Egypt and I was doing this job and this is what I remember, and some can be pretty elaborate and those are great for the group.

[00:15:33] Brownell: They're not a story yet though. Right. I mean, you know, storytelling, right. And storytelling means you've got to have a beginning, middle and end. You usually have sort of an inciting incident. You kind of have a before character and how they transform through the story. We have a little class on how do you turn your story into a story and some of the people that submit stories to the podcast are writers and have never written about reincarnation, but they think, Oh, wait a minute, I've got an idea.

[00:15:59] Brownell: And some of them are people who've had an experience, but they need to learn how to turn it into a story. So we've kind of got a mix of both. 

[00:16:06] Teddy: Amazing. let's say it's actually a tactic we talk about. I'm going to talk to people about when they're launching a book as well is getting into Facebook groups.

[00:16:16] Teddy: So it's something that I've used myself. So a lot of my books are about meditation. So I've, I remember of different groups. And as you mentioned, I've, I contact the owners of the group and say, Oh, Hey, I've got this new book. I think your members would find it really helpful, especially if you're doing period with Amazon, you know, you can say, Hey, it's the books free.

[00:16:33] Teddy: There's no cost to members even to download it. And it can be a great way to get those first reviews, build up that arc list eventually and yeah, really get some people listening to your books. So reading your book. Sorry. So yeah, that makes perfect sense. But with the, with your Facebook group, do you find, do you?

[00:16:49] Teddy: That it's managing that is quite a lot of work extra, like on top of the writing, or is it pretty manageable? 

[00:16:55] Brownell: it's pretty manageable. What I do is if I see somebody that looks like they could be. Well, first of all, I allow self promotion in the group on the first day of the month. So 

[00:17:07] Teddy: they, 

[00:17:07] Brownell: for the people who say, Oh, I've got ever, you know, I do hypnotic regression.

[00:17:11] Brownell: Oh, I've got this, you know, product or this service or this book or whatever, go for it on that day. In fact, I usually tease them a little before the day and a little after the day to give them a little leeway to just go crazy and promote themselves. And then that's it and then I have to be very careful, especially with some people.

[00:17:27] Brownell: You can kind of tell. Oh, well, their name is, you know, something that sounds like it's not really their name. You know, it's their business name, or I'm the psychic healer 1 or 1 or whatever they might be. And I will go to them privately and say, welcome to the group. I want to make sure you understand the rules and how the best way to integrate interact with the group.

[00:17:45] Brownell: And so I kind of preempt any spamming, if you will. And I say, you know, best way to interact with our group is it's about reincarnation stories. So share a story or ask a question, preferably both. So we don't want people just. Posting links or memes, but you can post a meme and you have a question like somebody wanted to post something about witches and it was a cute little meme, but it didn't have anything to do with reincarnation.

[00:18:09] Brownell: So I said, you could take that meme and add a caption to it or question to it saying, does anybody feel like they had a past life as a witch? Now we've got discussion. 

[00:18:19] Teddy: Yeah. Okay. 

[00:18:20] Brownell: And, um, and so we've had a lot of people in the group say this, this is their favorite group because it is very nurturing. We're very much about anti judgment.

[00:18:28] Brownell: So if somebody comes in there and wants to rip somebody a new one about judgment, we're like, no, we're open minded except. Multiple views. And and I, you know, personally, like, I couldn't care less if we have 25 members that all think they were Marilyn Monroe in a previous lifetime. Right? And then some people would argue.

[00:18:45] Brownell: No, you can't be. I am. And this can't be. Or you have to prove it. I'm like. They're all got great stories. I want to hear their stories, right? And they're probably all different stories, which would make it even more interesting. 

[00:18:56] Teddy: Yeah, 

[00:18:56] Brownell: so that's you know, we we try to make it lighthearted If you see some of the other groups that are similar They're kind of heavy and the pictures are heavy and dark and you know, and we're like we don't allow any horror stories because we don't want that energy.

[00:19:08] Brownell: We just want You know, kind of lighthearted and fun. In fact, I've got one writer who wants to write a car. He's a comedy writer and a comedian, and he's got this like hilarious story. I said, I think I bet you have a story for this. And it's like, I do. And it's about a ghost. And I don't want to, I don't want to give up the plot to this because I want people to listen to it, but it's like so cute and funny.

[00:19:28] Brownell: And so let's not take it too seriously. Let's have fun with it. 

[00:19:32] Teddy: Yeah, that sounds good. you talked a bit about engaging content on your Facebook group. So is it kind of a bit like. You know, with normal social media posts, like not in a group, you have to try and get stuff that people are going to talk about.

[00:19:43] Teddy: Like, is that how you, you want posts that people are going to interact with and like chat on and things like that? Yes. 

[00:19:49] Brownell: I make sure that personally I post something every day and most of those are pre scheduled. So, you know, I know what they are at least a month out and they're always a question. Now there might be a quote from a famous person, you know, like Prince, for example, believed in reincarnation.

[00:20:02] Brownell: So I post the other day, like, what do you think he'd be? thinking about for his next lifetime, right? Because he's gone and he believed in it. So, um, so it could be something like that. It could be like, who do you think you were? Or does anybody else think they might've lived in, you know, this place and time.

[00:20:19] Brownell: Or like right now, this month, we're looking at life purpose. So we're asking people like, what's your life purpose? And generally, if you believe in reincarnation, you believe that you come here for a reason and therefore you have some purpose for being here. So it ties all together. 

[00:20:34] Teddy: Yeah, that does make sense.

[00:20:35] Teddy: So if you have a group and you're using it for your book, like the key is to do things to ask questions, uh, so that people can interact with them and you think that's the best way that gets those posts moving. 

[00:20:46] Brownell: That's right. That's right. Even if it's a video of something and they want people to watch the video.

[00:20:52] Brownell: You know, I want to make sure that the members. Can you know, there's a question like, what did you think about what this person in this video said about, you know, life on Atlantis? Does anybody think they lived on Atlantis? And again, I don't care if it's true or not. It's an interesting story and a lot of people do believe that.

[00:21:09] Brownell: So go for it. You know, I mean, I've just, it's just the truth. That's kind of the vibe we want to be as a very welcoming and nurturing and fun group. 

[00:21:17] Teddy: Yeah, no, sounds great. It sounds, I do see how it works, but how do you like, how do you use it to print your books? And do you use it to get feedback for your books as well?

[00:21:27] Teddy: Or is it mostly just for sharing the stories? 

[00:21:30] Brownell: It's definitely started out mostly just sharing stories and then, you know, within a few months I was asking for stories for the, for, that we were going to use for the podcast. It took me a while to get the podcast going because I had to get all the stories together and I was traveling and having a crazy year last year.

[00:21:46] Brownell: So, I, it wasn't about me at all at first. And then a couple of months ago, and I was being in the marketing and book marketing and publishing my book, uh, coach told me in January, she said, I need a reader magnet. And I didn't know what that was. Um, and I'm sure you, I'm sure you know what that is.

[00:22:03] Brownell: I'm sure your listeners probably do, but I'll just explain that it's some sort of. Product book service, something you can offer for free to get people interested and kind of give them a taste of your writing and what you talk about. That's not what you're going to sell later. Right? And it's a basically platform building.

[00:22:21] Brownell: And as I was writing, and obviously, as soon as she said I need it, I like the story wrote itself, like it was in my mind and it's. Um, and it's all for free to anybody listening. So if anybody here wants to get a copy of it and it turned into a 9, 000 word story that I've actually had people tell me it could be a college course, like, like, yeah, really, really powerful.

[00:22:44] Brownell: And, for example, tomorrow night, I mean, on Wednesday night this week, I'm doing a Facebook live with another person who just went crazy over the stories like, oh, we got to talk about this and we got to have people listen to this story. And it's really lighthearted and kind of fun story from the perspective, I wrote it from the perspective of what I call the upstairs.

[00:23:02] Brownell: So that there's a team up here looking at us going, how do we get these humans to do what they're supposed to do? And it's a, it's a love story, but it's also, you know, kind of, you know, kind of a, there's just a lot of elements to it. and so I wrote that. And so. That was kind of the first lead in to me talking about myself, if you will, in the group saying, Hey, here's a book you can get or story you can get free, you know, go for it.

[00:23:28] Brownell: And and so that was kind of my nudge into, you know, Hey, this is what I do pretty much before then. I might mention it, but only like, it wouldn't be me promoting anything. Um, and then last week was the first time that I went out and said, okay, now that I've got the preorder on Amazon. You know, now I want to go to two people and say for 99 cents, you can get the preorder.

[00:23:51] Brownell: And I decided to sweeten the pot and said, you know, if you want any of my other books for free, I'll give them to you. If you order the 99 cent book, because I want people to, you know, I want to get those numbers. Like you have to do to get certain amount by time to get certain writings and all those, all those numbers stuff that you have to deal with as, as publishing.

[00:24:08] Teddy: Yeah, cool. Could we, um, is it all right if we just go into that lead market a little bit more? Cause I think that's a really interesting story. So You basically created a short story, 9, 000 words. And that was you promoted that for free. So did you do any ads to get people to go to that book or did you do it entirely through your Facebook group?

[00:24:27] Brownell: I did it through my group and of course my own following of my people and some other, several other groups allowed me to promote it, right? Because it's free. So a lot of people would like, you know, okay, we'll let you promote that. You're not trying to make money off of our group. Um, so I did, I didn't do any other kind of traditional advertising on it.

[00:24:43] Brownell: Yeah. Um, I might but other than the fact that if you go to the podcast, which of course is like I said is a separate element, but it says, I'm the author of the end and we meet again and yeah, the, you know, the host of this show. So that, you know, kind of got this, and if you go to an IMDB, you'll see the same kind of bio for me.

[00:25:03] Brownell: So it's a way of promoting me in a kind of more subtle way. You know, and then just, and I'm just still out there saying people read it and now we're doing the Facebook live and people are going to hear these stories and some of these podcasts, you know, people are going to hear about it and go, Oh, I want to read that story.

[00:25:16] Brownell: Right. And so, you know, hopefully they will. And hopefully it'll just kind of keep the momentum going. 

[00:25:21] Teddy: Yeah. And so do you gather people's email addresses in order to download this free book? Is that how the email works? Yeah. 

[00:25:27] Brownell: Funnel, you know, the funnel type of process. 

[00:25:30] Teddy: I was gonna say, do you use, do you use book funnels or anything like that to do the I do, I do, yeah.

[00:25:34] Teddy: Great. Is it, so how's tell, tell us about book funnels. 'cause I know I get a lot of questions about it. So how, like, how's it work? Was it easy to set up? Did you, you have, you enjoyed using it? 

[00:25:44] Brownell: Yeah, it's actually pretty easy to set up the first thing you know, of course as you put your book in there and you have to have it, you know, formatted and that kind of thing.

[00:25:52] Brownell: And and then you create what they call a landing page so that you have your hype and put your in there. The trickier, you know, it's a part is then you have to hook it to an email campaign company because they don't have the collection of email addresses. So you have to be connected to something.

[00:26:09] Brownell: And I had a lot of problem dealing with MailChimp and with can't even remember the other one. That's it was such a bad experience. But anyway, one of the other email services And so getting, but if you do connect to them, then like I used to get response, they were perfect. I mean, they gave me good service.

[00:26:25] Brownell: They responded, they were pretty good pricing. That was the better answer for me. So I could create the newsletter cause the part with it is if you want to collect the news, then you've got, first of all, you got to create your database in the newsletter program, right? Then you've got to connect it into book funnel.

[00:26:41] Brownell: And generally, if you use one of the one on their list, it's fairly easy. You just have to go back and forth between the two programs to get whatever the code is to put into BuckPunl. And then the next thing, of course, is if you're going to create a list, then you need to create your first newsletter so that once they sign up, they immediately get something.

[00:26:58] Teddy: Yeah. 

[00:26:58] Brownell: So, um, so it's, 9, 000 page story. I'm sorry. 

[00:27:04] Teddy: And the thing they get is that 9, 000 word story you're talking about? 

[00:27:07] Brownell: Well, and, and for me, yes. So what I did was I set up the 9, 000 word story so that people could could get it, but they would have to, you know, sign up for the newsletter and then they would, and then they would be able to download the books. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there were a few glitches, like I said, within the email systems, but but I found one that at least they gave me great service and I could text them and get an answer and, you know, any little glitchy things I could get fixed, you know, pretty, pretty well.

[00:27:32] Teddy: That is a really good tip because a lot of people just put their books on Amazon and just kind of hope they're going to sell. And I think using these other forms of marketing, like really getting into Facebook groups and. you know, posting and growing your reputation is a really good way to actually build up your online reputation.

[00:27:46] Teddy: You know, these things start accumulating up quite quickly and suddenly, you know, after a few weeks of doing this sort of posting and stuff, you know, you've already people starting to recognize your name and like your posts and things like that. And it really does build up quite quick. Yeah, 

[00:28:00] Brownell: and I'm the only brown El Landrum in the world, so and I can't hide.

[00:28:04] Brownell: No matter what I've ever done in my life, it's gonna be out there. 

[00:28:07] Teddy: There's lots of Edward Smiths around, I'm afraid. , I think there might be . 

[00:28:12] Brownell: There might be more than one. 

[00:28:13] Teddy: Yeah, possibly. Yeah. . So with your this has been great. Thank you so much. So let, just before we go, I'd sort of go on to your actual.

[00:28:22] Teddy: Your writing process. So, we're looking at the writing process and you've already gone through some of the things you, the structures you've the screenplay, but what's your sort of process of writing? Like, do you, uh, say if we don't, don't, don't talk about just the books that don't include the screenplay, for example, do you have a kind of structure you follow to keep that story moving?

[00:28:40] Teddy: Or do you have any sort of tips you use for getting that book written? 

[00:28:44] Brownell: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, of course, the whole question is what people ask. Are you a panther or a plotter? Right? You know, do you write by the seat of your pants or do you plot it out in detail? And my first novels were definitely more panther.

[00:28:57] Brownell: They could be. It wasn't, but the new, new trilogy is very much a mystery. And so I had to lay out clues step by step that I knew where they were going to go and I had to know where everything was going to go. And so, and then with the fact that I was using a chapter for each kind of episode, then I had to know the structure and like, where was each chapter going to end?

[00:29:22] Brownell: And so, um, and so, like, what was the cliffhanger? What's going to be in this chapter? Once I, you know, a lot of people say, Oh, no, plotting is too rigid. But for me, it was so freeing because I knew, like, I have this much space. And generally, each chapter is about 10, 000 to 12, 000 words. So they're long chapters, but I've heard that as long as a chapter length is consistent, the reader.

[00:29:43] Brownell: Is okay with it. Right. Um, and so, and, and I was like, okay, now I've got 10 chapters. Now I have to know how, what's in each of those 10 chapters and how do I get to the end of that particular book to get to the cliff eye of the book, to go to the next book or Yeah. Do the finale. You know? 

[00:29:58] Teddy: Yeah. So you don't do, you don't, you don't plus it out like in, um, like use spreadsheets or anything like that?

[00:30:03] Brownell: Very much. Very much, right? Yeah. Right. It was, uh, I'm not quite JK row, you know, if you've seen her spreadsheets. Yeah. 

[00:30:09] Teddy: They're amazing. The, uh, the handwritten ones. 

[00:30:11] Brownell: Um, not quite like that, but definitely it was like, okay, what's in each chapter for each book? And then how does each chapter, you know, what do I want to accomplish in each chapter?

[00:30:20] Brownell: So there was a lot of structure in each in each of that. Yeah. And, um, and then it was so much once I did all that plotting, I had the most fun. At the end pulling pieces together and I gave, I mean, I surprised myself, like, I didn't know this character was going to end up with this, you know, and so you still have the fun of the discovery that you get with pantsing, but you, you know, you just feel freer knowing that this is the parameters I can work with that.

[00:30:48] Brownell: It's weird that when you're, 

[00:30:49] Teddy: when you're writing like that and you get people, you know, say for example, they get together and you didn't imagine they were going to, do you have your editor read through to make sure that makes sense or anything like that. 

[00:30:59] Brownell: Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, you've got to get, you definitely got to get feedback.

[00:31:02] Brownell: I've got a number of fans who've just been really fabulous in terms of, uh, you know, um, giving me that kind of feedback and giving me that kind of input and they're even more valuable really because they know my vibe. They know how I write, you know, and they're invested in the characters kind of more than maybe somebody I would pay.

[00:31:20] Brownell: Um, but there was some, there was one scene that these two characters are like, Oh, I mean, I, in fact, I've had people say, okay, you've got to write more. And so I've got, like, all these, and this is one thing I would tell your, tell your fans is. You know, if you have to cut stuff out, that's great. Cause you have bonus scenes that you can offer your readers.

[00:31:38] Brownell: You've got, you know, I got so many bonus scenes or other little tidbits I can offer them, like what happens to this couple, you know, at the end that weren't a major couple, but you're still intrigued by them, you know, 

[00:31:49] Teddy: that's such a good way to think about it. I've never even thought about that, but. Yeah, you're right.

[00:31:52] Teddy: Like, as you said, JK Rowling does that all the time. Like on her blog, she would always be like, Oh, this is what happens to Neville Longbottom like 10 years later. And it sort of didn't get put into the story. Yeah. That is such a good way of looking at it. that one of the best things to take away from this call, I think 

[00:32:05] Brownell: it kills you.

[00:32:09] Brownell: It's like killing your babies, you know, if you have to cut a chapter or cut a character, but maybe you can add them in at another level or like all of a sudden, like, I've got a couple that is not the main couple, but their past is really interesting. So maybe somebody will write fan fiction about that.

[00:32:25] Brownell: You know, I'm not right. If somebody else could write fanfiction about it, which would be a blast to see. You know, get that engagement. 

[00:32:33] Teddy: Yeah. The last bit before we move on, just the end. So just one thing, going back to the marketing. So with your books, especially you've got nonfiction and fiction, like not talking about your Facebook groups, but other other forms of marketing you do, like, do you do any advertising on Amazon, for example, or do you do any, uh, other forms of marketing to try and get your books out there, but for the fiction and the nonfiction.

[00:32:54] Brownell: Yes, I'm doing my coach is coaching me. All right. I'm right at the stage right now I'm doing like these stacking programs that you can buy these stacking so they'll promote at certain tanks, you know, uh, With these stacking plans, so that's all kind of new to me. So i'm not kind of the expert I'm, just starting to do those I just at literally today uploaded to drafta digital so I can get on all those other platforms if you know With how they work.

[00:33:15] Brownell: And and then we're yes Well, then we're going to get into some of the other ads and the amazon ads and and so Some of those things, you know, like bargain book C and free book C, you know, the ultimate dream is to get on book bub, but you have to do a lot to get there and I'm not there yet, but that would be really, really fun to do.

[00:33:31] Brownell: So I'm doing some of the kind of the precursor kind of activities and ads and stuff like that, that she's guiding me through. And these virtual book tours that are all new to me. So I'm not gonna, I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I'm, I'm trying to follow the expert's advice to, to know what to do.

[00:33:46] Teddy: Yeah, perfect. And the coach you're working with, what, who is it you're working with? Or you're not, would you rather not say? 

[00:33:52] Brownell: Oh, no, I mean, her name is Carolyn Muller, Karen Muller Bryson. And, she's got a, website or, I'm sorry, Facebook group called Motivate the Muse. I kept, I helped, I co help her with it.

[00:34:02] Brownell: So I post stuff in there too. But you can find her that way. And she's also got a PhD in psychology and she's also written a bunch of books and all different genres and and sold hundreds of thousands of books and been a bestseller and all these kinds of things. And so she's, yeah. She knows the drill and she's just a real gift, you know, as far as helping me.

[00:34:20] Brownell: Yeah. 

[00:34:20] Teddy: Sounds good. I, I'll have to look her up to try and, uh, get some tips off her. Cause she sounds, it sounds like she's really drilled you to getting it. Everything keeps 

[00:34:28] Brownell: me on track and you know, I'm pretty hard worker, but I still need somebody to like, okay, wait a minute. What did you say that I had to do by this way, um, to get this and, you know, and just making sure that, you know, I'm living a life and getting these goals accomplished.

[00:34:42] Teddy: Yeah. Perfect. Great. Well, just so just the last question would just be like, just last, have you got any advice for just people who are starting out? Especially for the writing and building the community and, uh, and sort of growing your author platform by building that community and writing and also writing the books.

[00:34:58] Teddy: Have you got any tips for people who are just starting out? 

[00:35:00] Brownell: Yes, I think that what's key is to know your vibe. I always tell people if they're looking at you know You got to know your vibe. I mean i've written children's books. I've written kind of sexy novels I've written non fiction But if you read them, you'll see that's still my vibe like there's still a brown l vibe in there.

[00:35:16] Brownell: And so like i'm doing podcasts and I can talk about So many different things, but they still are within my vibe, you know, and so, I think it, so it doesn't mean you can't cross genres, although some people say you can't, but you should definitely know your vibe and also know your why, like, what is it you want to be known for?

[00:35:36] Brownell: What is it? Cause I, I may have a really great idea that's horror story and that's just not my vibe, you know? And so I may have to put it aside because. I'm trying to stay within who I am. And and so there's a thread within my books. Like I'm big into the why, like, you got to understand the why of something.

[00:35:52] Brownell: And so there's a thread, you know, and I think that's really important is know your why and know your vibe. 

[00:35:58] Teddy: Yeah, exactly. It's like Jimmy Carr. He said, you can do anything you want. You just can't do everything you want. Like it's a great line. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:36:06] Brownell: You know, and that's, then you've got to, then people are going to follow you because they like.

[00:36:10] Brownell: Your energy, they like your vibe and then you can find your tribe, you know, know your vibe, find your tribe or whatever that quote is. You know, your vibe attracts your tribe. I think it's how that one goes, but 

[00:36:19] Teddy: yeah, it's find your author's voice, but also like your online voice and like, but you know, find it, find what it is that drives you.

[00:36:25] Teddy: And that should be the right place to start. 

[00:36:27] Brownell: Yeah. And I found that the more open you are the more, you know, it might, the more controversial you might be, but also the stronger people will feel about you. Like I've had a year in this last year where I've been traveling and I just. It's got it gave everything I had away and went to Italy and then I went to Tunisia and I went to do all these things and I had no, I like I'm sharing it with and I'm not kind of a look at me person, but you kind of have to be a little and people are like, fascinated by the fact that I don't know a soul.

[00:36:52] Brownell: And I'm the only one who speaks English in this, you know, all these things. And I've just got to go and like, winging it, figuring out my life. But people are finding it interesting. So, yeah. You know, another author friend of mine said, Oh, well, I don't know if I want to be that clear about where I feel on this issue or that issue.

[00:37:08] Brownell: And I was like, well, I think that being too neutral actually isn't good for you. I think the more you are strong in who you are, the more people can really go like, I trust this person. I know where they're coming from. So yeah. Brilliant. 

[00:37:22] Teddy: Well, thank you so much for sharing that today. That's been, it's been amazing speaking to you.

[00:37:25] Teddy: I've learned loads. It's been great to go through your Facebook group and your books. And I'm excited to see where your books go. Maybe we can just get in a few months to see how you've been getting on with them. 

[00:37:33] Brownell: That would be great. And I hope you join the group. I hope everybody listening joins the group.

[00:37:36] Brownell: I hope you, you know, I'm sure you'll put it in the links. I will do. Yeah. You know, and check out my books and check out my podcast. And if they've got a story for me, let me know. 

[00:37:44] Teddy: Brilliant. And so the last thing is just, uh, we've got one final question. That's just what book are you reading though?

[00:37:50] Teddy: You recommends that you think everyone should be reading at the moment. 

[00:37:53] Brownell: Oh, wow. I don't know. I will say I just, I picked up I forget, I think it's called the grandest adventure or something, but it's by the person who wrote in the inheritance games, I think is the name of her books, uh, kind of a YA adventure story, and I really liked her first trilogy, so I just picked up her book and that for me, I, it's just kind of a good, uh, You know, kind of energy mix, the energy of kind of, you know, there's a little bit of a love story, but there's also an adventure and a mystery.

[00:38:19] Brownell: So that's, I think that's, I mean, I haven't started it yet, but I just picked up that book and I think that's probably one that I'm going to dig into next. 

[00:38:26] Teddy: Yes. Let us know how it goes. 

[00:38:27] Brownell: Yeah, I liked the first ones, I thought they were very clever and characters, very diverse, really well written characters and 

[00:38:34] Teddy: What was the name of it again?

[00:38:36] Brownell: I think the first trilogy was the, let's see, I should know the author, shame on me, right? I should be promoting the author. I think it was called the Inheritance Games. Right. And then this is the newest kind of trilogy, but it's kind of a spinoff from the original trilogy. So it's the same characters, but then they're doing it kind of from a different angle.

[00:38:52] Brownell: And so that looks like it'll be. It'll be fine because I enjoyed the first one. So that's, it just came out like pre order or something. And I'm not usually the one who's like, okay, something just came out. I've got to get it now. But that was one of the few that I thought, yeah, I liked the first one.

[00:39:05] Brownell: So I'm going to get those. 

[00:39:06] Teddy: Great. Sounds good. So if people want to get in contact with you, it's a Facebook group is the best way to get in touch with you. Or is that? 

[00:39:12] Brownell: Yeah. I mean, I'm the only Brownell Landrum in the world. Yeah. So there's brownelllandrum. com. And that's my website. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram, you know, Uh, Twitter, I'm gonna start getting active in Tik TOK, but not yet.

[00:39:25] Brownell: And so, but you know, there's only one of me. 

[00:39:29] Teddy: Great. Well, it's good to speak to you and we'll catch up again in a few months. 

[00:39:33] Brownell: Sounds great. All 

[00:39:34] Teddy: right. Speak soon. Bye. Thank you so much for tuning into the publishing performance podcast. I really hope you found today's episode inspiring. I love chatting to authors, writers, and people in the publishing world.

[00:39:45] Teddy: Now, just before we wrap up, let me tell you about some The number one platform for authors who want to increase Amazon book sales, but I'm not really sure where to start. Now, this show is all about helping you to sell more books. And if you're looking to boost your publishing game and to maximize your books potential on Amazon.

[00:40:04] Teddy: Then publishing performance is designed to help authors just like you to grow your readership and to reach a much wider audience. Now I know that Amazon ads can be slightly complicated, which is why publishing performance is like having a personalized ad account manager to create your ad campaigns, to choose your best keywords and to make adjustments in real time.

[00:40:24] Teddy: Now, if you're investing in ads, you really want to make sure that your investment is being used effectively and Publishing Performance does just that. It aims to make your budget go further, improve your organic rank and target keywords more effectively. Just go to publishingperformance. com to get started with Amazon Ads for just 1.